TORMEK Policy Change and Amazon.com

[Jeff Farris]

I have recently received a message from TORMEK that explains why they have severed their relationship with Amazon.com. TORMEK has decided that in the future all of their distributors must have a retail presence at some level, with staff familiar with the system, who are able to answer fundamental questions about the system's operation before and after purchase.

This decision proves TORMEK's commitment to their end user customers. TORMEK and their appointed distributor partners anticipate that most customers will value more qualified sources from which to purchase a TORMEK system. Everyone involved will do whatever we can to make this transition in policy as smooth as possible for the customers. If you have a backorder with Amazon, your best move is to cancel the order and place it with another TORMEK distributor. If you are considering the purchase of a competitive system because of any doubts raised by the sudden disappearance of TORMEK from Amazon's system, rest assured that TORMEK's strength and commitment to the woodworking and sharpening market is unwavering, stronger than ever and forward looking.

Best regards,

Jeff Farris
SharpToolsUSA

[Howard Barlow]

Like Stihl. Good policy.

[Bill Lewis]

I don't understand this. Amazon is the online distributer for Tool companies such as Tool Crib of the North, which still continues to sell Tormek. Tool Crib may have a retail location, but the majority of thier sales are either through Amazon, or Mail/Telephone orders. My dealings with them in the past is that they are knowledgeable regarding the products they sell. Amazon doesn't make any secret they they are sell for other companies either so any problems/support would still go to Tool Crib.
I suspect there are other issues going on here, like maybe how amazon does have the ability to perform short term extreme discounts as I have read here. These tactic may have gotten the direct retailers mad at Tormek. It's just a thought, there may be other explanations, or conspiracy theories at play.

[Steve Schoene]

Perhaps it is easier to maintain retail prices by working through smaller merchants. Alternatively, Amazon may have been seeking a lower price from Tormek based on their volume, and Tormek called their bluff. Or perhaps the reasons are as stated in the press release.

[David Abel]

I have recently received a message from TORMEK that explains why they have severed their relationship with Amazon.com. TORMEK has decided that in the future all of their distributors must have a retail presence at some level, with staff familiar with the system, who are able to answer fundamental questions about the system's operation before and after purchase.

This decision proves TORMEK's commitment to their end user customers. TORMEK and their appointed distributor partners anticipate that most customers will value more qualified sources from which to purchase a TORMEK system. Everyone involved will do whatever we can to make this transition in policy as smooth as possible for the customers. If you have a backorder with Amazon, your best move is to cancel the order and place it with another TORMEK distributor. If you are considering the purchase of a competitive system because of any doubts raised by the sudden disappearance of TORMEK from Amazon's system, rest assured that TORMEK's strength and commitment to the woodworking and sharpening market is unwavering, stronger than ever and forward looking.

Best regards,

Jeff Farris
SharpToolsUSA

Jeez, can't they develop a video(s) and instructions up to the task of demonstrating all aspects of the use of a Tormek? I can't fathom why a manufacturer would put someting on the market that can't be used without handholding. Retailers really don't want to be asked 21 questions after the sale, so if Tormek can provide pre-sales info for potential purchases to read, and include instructions with the unit as I mentioned at the top of this post, there should be no need for a retailer to hold hands with the end user.

[Michael Ballent]

...I suspect there are other issues going on here, like maybe how amazon does have the ability to perform short term extreme discounts as I have read here. These tactic may have gotten the direct retailers mad at Tormek. It's just a thought, there may be other explanations, or conspiracy theories at play.

I think that you are correct as far as the extreme discounts. I have seen people that were able to purchase a Tormek for $300. The $400 price tag is tough to swallow, although I have heard glowing reviews for the system, it is quite pricey. I am sure that there are dealers out there that were sweating whenever Amazon was blowing the Tormeks out the door.

The logic for splitting from Amazon has to be money and not customer support. If I buy a Tormek from some other online source, I cannot just walk into their store... I still need to make a call, which can be as easily accomplished by calling the company directly. They have a premium product and as such I would expect premium support and excellent manuals. The Leigh jig comes to mind as an example... Expensive, but the manuals are excellent. If Tormek really wanted to make sure that customers and vendors would get together, then they would not allow any online selling in the first place. Then if I want to buy a Tormek I have to locate my friendly local Tormek dealer, drive to their location, buy the machine, some accessories, and know that I just helped out the local guy and if I run into a snag I can drive back the the local dealer and they can help me...yeah right.

Sorry Jeff, I do not buy this explanation... It's dollars and cents, not customer service.

[Jeff Farris]

..... Or perhaps the reasons are as stated in the press release.

Although I am a third party to this painstaking and arduous decision on TORMEK's part, I can assure you, it has cost TORMEK thousands of dollars, that may or may not be replaced by other distributors.

Bill Lewis: Amazon has cut their ties with Tool Crib of the North, which in part started this ball rolling.

David Abel: There are few products on the market that have better instructional material than the TORMEK. And, I say with all confidence that there is nothing in the way of sharpening equipment that is as well documented. That said, it is a complex system that has many options. Most customers need only a few options, some need none, others want them all. How is an "order taker" going to be able to help the customer work through those options? Maybe you don't need your hand held, but someone with less confidence and less experience will appreciate it.

Howard Barlow: Thanks for the vote of confidence. Your example is a perfect illustration of the direction TORMEK has decided is best for the company and their customers.

[Ken Garlock]

Sounds like Bovine Excrement to me Their move is tantamount to price fixing.

[Jeff Farris]

....

Sorry Jeff, I do not buy this explanation... It's dollars and cents, not customer service.

I haven't been accused of misleading people very often, and to be honest, I don't appreciate it. You are absolutely wrong. Although, it appears that your cynical view is shared by quite a few responders already. I think that makes a rather sad statement about the views of people toward any corporate entity, and I agree that many corporations have done all they can to instill this jaded view. However, that is a discussion for a different forum at another time.

I assure you, this decision has cost TORMEK many thousands of dollars - more than you might imagine they could possibly walk away from. Those cancelled booked orders are to be balanced by the potential for better long term performance due to better customer relations with both their dealers and their end users.

[Carl Crout]

I like my Scheppach Tiger 2000 Tormek clone from Hartville Tool. It works good and was cheaper. Also was made in Germany and Germany is known for quality.

From what I read the german distributor got tired of messing with Tormek and come up with their own product.

The wheel maybe smaller in diameter but it is a better quality wheel, contrary to what Tormek says...

[Jeff Farris]

Sounds like Bovine Excrement to me Their move is tantamount to price fixing.

Price fixing means that a distributor is cut off if they discount prices below acceptable levels. That has nothing to do with what TORMEK has done. If I close my storefront in Springfield and stop doing shows for TORMEK, relying completely on internet sales, I would be cut off, too.

Geez, you guys are a cynical bunch.

Do you really like dealing with clueless order takers?

[Matt Meiser]

Those cancelled booked orders are to be balanced by the potential for better long term performance due to better customer relations with both their dealers and their end users.

Doesn't that contradict what you've already said? Besides eliminating a low cost alternate, how does this move help their relationship with other dealers? Sorry, but I have to agree with the other posters. These things usually are about money.

Now, don't get me wrong, I chose to buy my Tormek from you because of the customer service I had heard I would have available to me. Since it a great product, I haven't needed to use that. I usually don't buy from Amazon besides for books because of the hassle, so I could care less whether or not they sell a particular tool.

[Matt Meiser]

Geez, you guys are a cynical bunch.

Its pretty hard not to be when it comes to corporations making decisions that lead to higher consumer prices.

Do you really like dealing with clueless order takers?

Not usually, but its about the same as shopping at Wal-Mart, which I do less and less.

[Jeff Farris]

Okay, here is an example. It is something that I have experienced hundreds of times over the years, and I can imagine that every Woodcraft and Rockler floor sales rep has experienced it as well. We'll make you the dealer. so you can experience it, too.

A customer comes in your store, and expresses interest in the TORMEK. You spend the better part of an hour going over the machine with him. You ignore other customers, because this guy's intensity level has convinced you that he is serious about dropping the hammer today. You ask him if he's ready to take one home, and he says to you,

"Oh, I bought it from Amazon last week. I just wanted you to show me how to use it."

As part of my agreement to represent TORMEK at The Woodworking Shows, I smile and continue helping them as best I can. But, if I was a Woodcraft store owner or manager, my reaction might be different.

Relating back to the first response in this thread, Stihl power equipment has maintained a loyal distributor base and a loyal end user base by staying out of the big boxes and away from Amazon. The dealers are happy with Stihl, the end users are happy with the dealers, and yes, Stihl knows that they could sell thousands more saws if they would drop the price and open up the lines of distribution. But how long would it last?

[Steve Rowe]

Doesn't that contradict what you've already said? Besides eliminating a low cost alternate, how does this move help their relationship with other dealers? Sorry, but I have to agree with the other posters. These things usually are about money.

Tormek and every other manufacturer has every right to determine the manner in which its product is marketed and sold. Their dealer network also has the responsibility to abide by those contract terms. If not, terminate their Tormek dealership.

The reality is that the Tormek system (and many others) do not sell themselves. They must be demonstrated to potential buyers or it would just be looked at as if were just another bench grinder. This pulls it out of the realm of being a commodity and thus has different factors driving its success (or failure) other than price.

Consider this possibility. Allowing this to continue could result in non-Amazon dealers getting fed up demonstrating the Tormek product to potential buyers and these buyers then purchase from Amazon because the price is lower. Mind you, Amazon bore no expense to demonstrate the product on whose sale they profitted therefore, you should expect the price to be lower. This continues and eventually, the non-Amazon dealers terminate their relationships with Tormek. And now; no one demonstrates the product and the only place to buy is Amazon. Sales plummet because no one demonstrates, markets, and actually sells the product and Tormek goes out of business. So yes, it is about money, dealer support, and customer support, but with far more reaching impacts than the average consumer (who always wants the lowest price) might think of. I, for one, look at the value of the item purchased and that is why I also purchased from SharpTools USA.