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Thread: Short Stroke Sliding Table Saw or ?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Waterford, PA
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    825
    I want to thank everyone for their helpful input. Due to the unique shape of my shop, I'm fairly sure I could squeak a small one in without an outrigger. I'm not sure it would serve my purposes without the outrigger though. I simply do not have more than 7-8 feet of width the saw can occupy. So many of the photos look like they are smaller, but when I lookup the dimensions of the saw, they aren't.

    Again, Thank you

  2. #17
    I was fortunate, in a bizarre way, when I built my basement shop because cabinet saws were not available from any vendor. Apparently, there is no market for them in Germany and the only choices were portable contractor saws or sliders. Once I decided on the SCM SC2C, I started laying out my 4.5 x 5 meter (about 241 square feet) shop in SketchUp to ensure I could position all of the equipment and still be functional. The SC2C dominates the floor space, but three years later, I have no regrets. I thought I would be removing the outrigger when not needed, but I only removed it once when I adjusted the sliding table.





    My shop does not allow me to rip a full sheet of plywood, or anything longer than 2.2 meters; however, I can easily crosscut a full sheet. Since the basement is below grade and three of the four shop walls are cast in place concrete, I had to work within the original building constraints. The arbor of the SC2C is in the middle of the five-meter distance between the walls, and there is no way to start a full sheet. Fortunately, I have a track saw when I need to rip anything longer than 2.2 meters.

    Aside from one sheet that I had to rip in the garage, the 11 sheets of 19mm plywood used to make the miter saw workstation in the drawing were cut in the shop using the SC2C as shown in the SketchUp drawing and the image below.





    Before giving up on the possibility of short-stroke slider, I recommend laying out your shop in the CADD program of your choice. You might be surprised at what you can do with a blank slate approach. I use the free version of SketchUp Make 2017 on my Mac, and can import tools and equipment from several libraries. I had to build the SC2C model, but imported the other tools in the drawing.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Starr View Post
    I'd like to have a minimum of 25" rip capacity to the right of the blade, and a minimum of 5' cross cut length. I'd need enough slider travel to cross cut 25".


    Thanks for your insight.
    Plenty of good advice so far. I think you might be disappointed with just a sliding table add on. I agree the numbers on the various sites make it difficult to visualize the exact space needed on the floor.

    I have the Minimax 4e, which is larger, but I believe the actual saw 'cabinet' size is similar to others. If you can wait a couple of days I can get some photos with actual measurements to see. The way mine goes together the table to the right attaches to the main cast saw cabinet. If you do not need 50 inches then that could be left off.

    For each machine you look at get some scrap you can cut to those dimensions and lay them on the floor. I agree with Mike about doing a Sketchup layout but if you like to see things in the actual shop then just lay some scraps on the floor.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    207
    +1 for Mike's recommendation of laying it out in CAD. My "machine room" is 23 x 24. I fit in and use a SCM SC 4E (102" slider) along with two 20" bandsaws, a Hammer A3-41 16" J/P, drill press, 6 x 89" osc edge sander, 19" drum sander, a lathe, Pantarouter, hollow chisel mortiser, router table, sharpening station and sink station with mini fridge.

    I laid it out about 29 different ways in CAD before pulling the trigger, but it works and works really well.

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    3.jpg
    Last edited by Mick Simon; 05-06-2021 at 9:51 AM.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Simon View Post
    +1 for Mike's recommendation of laying it out in CAD. My "machine room" is 23 x 24. I fit in and use a SCM SC 4E (102" slider) along with two 20" bandsaws, a Hammer A3-41 16" J/P, drill press, 6 x 89" osc edge sander, 19" drum sander, a lathe, Pantarouter, hollow chisel mortiser, router table, sharpening station and sink station with mini fridge.

    I laid it out about 29 different ways in CAD before pulling the trigger, but it works and works really well.

    1.jpg
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    3.jpg
    There you go! That's a great illustration of how much space it takes up. Very nice. I like that out feed table too. The one that came with my 4e is not very functional.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
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    8,004
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Starr View Post
    I recently sold an asset that will allow me to upgrade my table saw, so I'm trying to decipher the market.

    My older Grizzly Cabinet saw, with an outfeed table occupies a 5' square space. Additionally, I have 9' on the operator side for ripping 8' stock. I have to open the doors on the outfeed side to rip anything over 7'. The existing setup sits with the left side near a wall.

    After spending several hours, it seems that it is impossible to figure out the space a slider actually takes up when not in use. Perhaps I'm just too unfamiliar to understand the terminology, but I simply can't seem to locate the info.

    I'd like to have a minimum of 25" rip capacity to the right of the blade, and a minimum of 5' cross cut length. I'd need enough slider travel to cross cut 25".

    Does such a beast exist?
    Would a slider attachment on my existing saw allow the same?

    As I see it, adding to my existing saw leaves me with all the same drawbacks (poor dust collection, no riving knife). If I can fit a slider into my shop will it address these issues?

    Thanks for your insight.
    Lisa, this is a photo of the K3 slider shortly after it was installed. The rip fence is 31" and the wagon is 49" long. Overall, it has a smaller footprint than the contractor saw it replaced ...



    Keep in mind that I work exclusively with solid wood. I do not build with sheets of ply or MDF. This saw takes care of all ripping and crosscutting .. and more ...

    The outfeed houses a router table, which saves space ...



    This parallel guide is better than a Fritz and Frans! ...



    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
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    10,466
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Starr View Post
    Rod, Photos would be great. After watching Matt's video, I'm thinking it just won't fit in my shop, though everyone says it takes the same space as a cabinet saw. Perhaps I just don't understand them well enough.
    Hi Lisa, I suggest that you spend some time thinking about this and watching videos on the use of a format saw.

    The machine is the same size as a regular saw, and uses the saw infeed and outfeed room as a conventional saw.

    Normally I make solid wood furniture so the outrigger isn't on the saw, it hangs on the wall. It goes back on the saw in about 2 minutes, no tools or calibration required. It will support a sheet of ply for crosscutting, or a dining room table top, then it goes back on the wall.

    You will be making a big mistake by not going with a small slider instead of a cabinet saw, in my opinion.

    Regards, Rod.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Rod Sheridan; 05-06-2021 at 10:14 AM.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    2,174
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa Starr View Post
    I want to thank everyone for their helpful input. Due to the unique shape of my shop, I'm fairly sure I could squeak a small one in without an outrigger. I'm not sure it would serve my purposes without the outrigger though. I simply do not have more than 7-8 feet of width the saw can occupy. So many of the photos look like they are smaller, but when I lookup the dimensions of the saw, they aren't.

    Again, Thank you
    As in Rod and Derek's photos, many woodworkers often use short-stroke sliders with just a mitre fence and a support table in lieu of a full outrigger. I've actually fitted a Felder fence to my SC2c though I've seen Incra ones fitted to them as well.


  9. #24
    I'll cast another vote for a short-stroke slider being quite handy. I have a discontinued Grizzly model, the G700, outfitted with an Incra telescoping fence plus a DIY baby side support table. Do get/build a side support table, it makes it so much easier to handle larger pieces.

    20210506_095451.jpg

  10. #25
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gatineau, Québec
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Lisa, this is a photo of the K3 slider shortly after it was installed. The rip fence is 31" and the wagon is 49" long. Overall, it has a smaller footprint than the contractor saw it replaced ...



    Keep in mind that I work exclusively with solid wood. I do not build with sheets of ply or MDF. This saw takes care of all ripping and crosscutting .. and more ...

    The outfeed houses a router table, which saves space ...



    This parallel guide is better than a Fritz and Frans! ...



    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Derek:

    Nice design (and craftsmanship) on your parallel guide. Do you just drop the guide bar into the sliding table or do you have a «profile » that slides into the rail?

    Regards,

    J.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
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    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kreinhop View Post
    I was fortunate, in a bizarre way, when I built my basement shop because cabinet saws were not available from any vendor. Apparently, there is no market for them in Germany and the only choices were portable contractor saws or sliders. Once I decided on the SCM SC2C, I started laying out my 4.5 x 5 meter (about 241 square feet) shop in SketchUp to ensure I could position all of the equipment and still be functional.
    Mike, why did you orient your saw that way, rather than with the right edge of the table up against a wall? (I'd think you'd want to maximize the space to the left of your sliding table?)

    Matt

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Hills View Post
    Mike, why did you orient your saw that way, rather than with the right edge of the table up against a wall? (I'd think you'd want to maximize the space to the left of your sliding table?)

    Matt
    I thought about this, but some of the plywood vendors sell strange sizes, such as 1.5 x 3 meters and 2.5 x 5 meters. The normal size for plywood and MDF sheet goods is 1.25 x 2.5 meters (about 4x8 feet), but if what I want isn't in stock, I will buy the larger size. If I placed the saw with the right end of the rip fence guide against the wall, I would be restricted to 1.16 meter crosscuts. As it is now, I can easily crosscut a 3-meter length in half.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    8,004
    Derek:
    Nice design (and craftsmanship) on your parallel guide. Do you just drop the guide bar into the sliding table or do you have a «profile » that slides into the rail?

    Regards,

    J.


    Thanks Jacques

    The near end of the parallel guide is aligned with the zero clearance end of the crosscut fence ..







    The other end has a “key” which drops into the slot to set it 99% in position. I then give it a tiny nudge against a blade tooth. Both ends are locked down with bolts.

    Article here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered...rK3Slider.html

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  14. #29
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gatineau, Québec
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    [/COLOR]
    Thanks Jacques

    The near end of the parallel guide is aligned with the zero clearance end of the crosscut fence ..







    The other end has a “key” which drops into the slot to set it 99% in position. I then give it a tiny nudge against a blade tooth. Both ends are locked down with bolts.

    Article here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered...rK3Slider.html

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Thank you Sir!

    J.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Waterford, PA
    Posts
    825
    Thanks to Mike, and others, prodding me make a 3D CAD drawing of my shop, I now have a much better understanding of the flaws of my current layout and a number of improvements that could be made that will allow me to place a compact slider in my shop!

    This morning I actually tackled moving the SCMS and Band saw to the new locations identified with the plan. That alone took a relatively useless "dead space" and made it productive. With a few more tweaks, that I will only make if I sell my existing saw and replace with a slider, the shop will be more functional than it is now.

    At the moment, I'm leaning toward the Minimax SC2C or SC3C, but am also going to get info for the Hammer machines.

    Keep the suggestions coming, and thank you.

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