I've bought such a set. The anvil is soft as butter.
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I've bought such a set. The anvil is soft as butter.
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Juergen; if it has a soft anvil its likely you bought a Somax 250. A pitiful copy of the Eclipse 77.Originally Posted by Juergen Mueller
Google "Somax soft anvil".
regards Stewie ;
Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 05-25-2021 at 4:22 AM.
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It's funny how these theories get propagated. "The Stanley 42X" is the ONLY one to get! Everyone believes it, and prices skyrocket.
I have a 42X and a 77, a few Taintor #7s, a Disston Triumph. They all work more or less equally well. I also have another Stanley 42 (non "x")with a wide hammer, which would also probably be just as good with a little grinding.
Don't get hung up on the 42X, it is nothing special.
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No it is no Somax. Jieli ist printed on the saw and you can find it at amazon or ebay. Chinese or Indian made i think.
The copy of a copy of a... They even invented a new lense for the vise. So if you just could talk to the guys making them tell them what to do better...
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One of the reasons the #42X is popular is it grips the saw blade just before it presses the tooth.It's funny how these theories get propagated. "The Stanley 42X" is the ONLY one to get!
It is also a known entity over the life of its manufacture.
There are many with a similar operation made by other makers. Sometimes they will be listed in discussions of saw sets.
Some saw sets on the auction sites are more suited for tree cutting saws.
Of all the different saw sets Stanley put on the market, the #42X is the one people who work on saws for a living have chosen for the job.
Of all the saw sets that have crossed my path in the wild in the last decade, the #42X is the only one that comes home with me when it is offered at a good price.
If a decent one of a different make appears, it will be considered. Most of them have an overly large hammer or hold the saw plate with a bolt. Sure they could work. Most of the time they are more work than result.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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The Triumph and the Eclipse 77 also grip the saw before the hammer sets the teeth. Triumph 280 hammer and early eclipse 77 hammers are simiar in size to the 42X. Later Eclipse or bigger Triumph have larger hammers which can easily be modified.
There's no magic in the 42X.
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The magic is in the marketing hype that has raised user's desires.There's no magic in the 42X.
jtk
Last edited by Jim Koepke; 05-29-2021 at 1:50 PM. Reason: changed awareness to desires
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
As before...I have 2 saw sets the OP can have...we just need a way to mail the small flat rate box to a P.O. on this side of the border....and have someone pick it up there...I'll pay the postage that far...
May Rehab, Same maker.JPG
One is coarse teeth, the other is for fine teeth
Last edited by steven c newman; 05-29-2021 at 3:09 PM.
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I'm glad to hear that you're working on one (I'd been wondering). To me, your $75 target would be more than reasonable if it performs as expected, and has a certain set of features. The ones that stand out for me (and this is probably your laundry list as well) are:
(1) Ease of adjustment. This is a sore point in every vintage set that I own. It's just a pain to rotate or slide the anvil to just the right spot and lock it down again without slop somewhere in the system. I'm not asking for precise labels saying how far out the set will be, because that depends on plate thickness, tooth size, and stuff. Just having that thing behave when I move it would be great.
(2) Interchangeable hammers. For big and small teeth, and to replace when they get worn.
(3) The grip-the-plate (dual plunger) feature. This is the big one on the much-ballyhooed 42X, but the Disston Triumph has it as well. Though you can get by without this, it makes use a lot easier if you have it, and a premium tool should have it or an equivalent.
(4) Ergonomics. I don't use the 42/42X styles and Millers Falls sets because they feel awful in the hand, especially after setting a whole bunch of teeth. I've been using my Disston Triumph on larger saws and my Somax on the smaller ones. And it's not like those are great; they're just not totally dreadful.
(5) Better registration on the toothline. On most sets, the registration edges are kind of narrow, and they can slip around into larger tooth gullets. The Disston Triumph has a flap-like thing that you can adjust even with the sides of the set, or below it, giving you precise control of the where the hammer will land on the tooth in the vertical dimension. I think someone else here mentioned that thing, but it is pretty nice.
(6) Vision. Maybe this isn't such an important feature, but it would be nice if there were obvious visual cues pointing to the tooth that you're about to set.
As you say, it's not a huge market. But interest in saw sharpening is higher now than it was a decade ago, and one of the sore remaining points is indeed that the options for plier-type saw sets are basically wretched. Personally, I have five saw sets, but I'd buy a Veritas set in an instant if I knew that I would never again need to use any of my old ones.
Contributor
Ken,
There is some magic in the 42X, and that is it is the best designed tool for the job, from a function standpoint and an ergonomics standpoint.
Functionally has been discussed above, namely the gripping of the plate before the tooth setting.
Ergonomically, it shines even brighter. The eclipse and triumph sets have the handles straight and are MUCH HARDER to squeeze in that orientation. It simply tires out your wrist much more quickly than a set that is rotated 90 degrees as in all the sets that Stanley made. Its just more natural and comfortable to squeeze that grip with your clenched hand than the other style of sets.
Sure, you might set a random saw and not notice anything, but spend a couple hours with that in your hand and you will quickly be putting it on the shelf in favor of a 42X style set. That is the main reason most people that doctor or make saws prefer the 42X.
So, there is magic in the 42X.
Happy squeezing.
Member
Huh. That's really curious, because my experience has been the polar opposite, with the Stanley (and other more upright-style) sets giving me a lot of agony over the years. I've found that after big saw setting jamborees, the rear grip is really uncomfortable in my palm and my wrist hurts. By comparison, the Triumph and Somax (Eclipse) sets give me little trouble, though I'm certainly not going to pretend that they're ergonomic wonders.
I wonder if this has anything to do with body position over the saw when sharpening. When working on a saw, I like to have it down fairly low and get right over top, with my forearm hanging at (some kind of?) diagonal while holding the set. So I tend not feel that my wrist is contorted when using a horizontal-style set. Even more speculatively, the Triumph and Somax sets have longer handles, so (maybe) they offer more leverage. I guess that could be tested sometime.
Maybe we could compare notes here? Do you put the saw up higher?
(note: this older post also mentions saw position)
Member
Pete,
I guess that's why we say YMMV.
As you know the other two sets also clamp the saw plate before the hammer sets the tooth, so there's no magic there.
I'm sure you've sat in front of many more saws than I, but I find the ergos of the Eclipse 77 far nicer than the 42X. Maybe I'll give the 42X another shot to see if anything has changed.
Contributor
The preference or ergonomics of the tool's design may depend on how one holds the saw during the setting.
If one is set up with the saw teeth at eye level the 'pistol grip' of the #42 may make more sense.
If one has the saw held lower and viewing from above the 'plier grip' may be more comfortable.
Different working styles can make one tool more comfortable than another.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
I raise the saw up in the vise, for setting the teeth. Arm position must make the difference for people that like either, or.
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