Which tool sharpening system?

[Thomas McCurnin]

Rikon grinder wheels with a Veritas tool rest jig and a home made angle jig(s) like Derek in Perth made for setting the tool rest at repeatable angles. Thanks to Derek.

[andrew whicker]

Tormek + stones and Lee Valley guide.

Stones only can be very painful if you have a chip or gouge that needs removing.

[Jim Dwight]

I use a worksharp 3000 after trying manual sharpening and a powered water stone. The worksharp works better. I use it on chisels, plane irons, knives, jointer knives ad planner blades. They sell a knives and scissors add on I have and I think it's worthwhile but there is also a separate device for them. I have not used it but mine came with slotted wheels and abrassive discs for sharpening turning tools on the under side of the glass disc. I got extra fine abrassives for mine but I don't use them. The stock abrasives put a good edge on, no need to go finer IMHO. Sharpening is a bit like sanding to me (and even more with a worksharp) I do it because I have to and I want to do it as quickly as possible but still get a good result. The Worksharp meets that need.

[Prashun Patel]

If you are not averse to spending money then for me what has worked is having a couple systems to switch between:

Worksharp with lapidary diamond plates: re establishing bevels, draw knives
8" CBN with wolverine + varigrind: turning tools. Full stop.
Shapton waterstones 1000-8000: honing flat blades.

Being facile with all gives you options. I still take my drawknives or plane blades occasionally to the grinder.

I think anyone who says ONE way is the best hasn't mastered all of the different ways. They each have their place.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Thanks for the input all!

I was a bit surprised so many agree on water stones. I have a very nice set of stones and I have been able to get my chisels and plane irons the sharpest with it.

It sounds like I'll upgrade my honing guide as well.

The worksharp 3000 got honorable mention a few times which also surprised me a bit. I have one of there smaller units for knife sharpening. I was considering upgrading my grinder and wheels. I'll take a closer look between the worksharp and my grinder upgrade to see which way to go.

I infer (ok some comments are more direct than inferences) that I would be best served by devoting more time to learning as well as making my setup quick and easy to use. I wasn't familiar with David Charlesworth but I'll see what I can learn from him.

I was surprised the Tormek didn't get more mentions. I'm a little relieved as well as it appears it can get very costly - not just the base unit but the add ons as well.

I wasn't familiar with the Shapton stones. I may order one to see if how it does. It would be nice to minimize the messiness associated with the water stones.

I'm guessing for turning tools I may get more feedback in the turning section. This is why I'm thinking a grinder upgrade may serve me best and create a better setup for sharpening my lathe tools.

Thanks all!

[David M Peters]

I do woodturning and use hand tools and haven't found much overlap between the two disciplines. I had a Tormek T-7 which I thought would unite the two worlds but it didn't do that great of a job on either. So for me:

Woodturning - 1HP Rikon with 80/300 CBN wheels. I happen to use the Tormek gouge jig but that's not an important distinction.
Hand tools - a motley crew of diamond plates (low grits) and a Shapton ceramic Kuromaku 8000 grit stone. Strop to finish if I'm feeling fancy. I have a Veritas Mk II but rarely use it. Any bevel resets I'll do on the bench grinder.

Eric - my advise for you would be to stick with your grinder + wolverine for woodturning - it's not going to get much better than that. With CBN wheels you don't have to worry about the diameter changing but that's a fairly small care, I think. The ceramic stones, being "spritz and go", seem to strike a good balance between low messiness and effectiveness.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I use a Tormek for the wife’s turning tools and to grind an edge on planes and chisels. I use water stones to hone the edge on the straight blades and polish the backs.

[johnny means]

I'd like to hear the scientific reasoning behind the idea that only hand sharpening creates a truly sharp edge.

[Derek Cohen]

I'd like to hear the scientific reasoning behind the idea that only hand sharpening creates a truly sharp edge.

Johnny, it is quite simple.

Substitute “smooth” for “ sharp”. Then the smoother the bevel edge, the sharper the blade. Okay?

So, what gets the bevel edge smoothest? Obviously, the higher the grit the smoother the finish. While there is a law of diminishing returns here, anything around 15000 grit is going to be plenty smooth.

Last bit: in addition to smooth, you want “flat”. Flat in this context means with minimal serrations.

A coarse sharpening medium, such as 1000 grit, leaves a rougher edge with serrations. Machine sharpening, such as a standard Tormek, ends with 1000 grit (when the surface is regraded). This is the grit at which hand sharpening on waterstones is just beginning! Even if you have a Tormek with a series of CBN wheels increasing in grit level, it would be a pain in the watsit to use. Too inefficient to be practical. Efficient for me means a complete re-sharpening of a blade in under 30 seconds.

There are few, if any, machines which allow high level - and efficient - sharpening. In my opinion, the quickest and sharpest edge comes from a hollow ground blade - which is self-jigging for free hand holding, as well as reducing the amount of steel to hone - and run on a series of waterstones.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Alex Zeller]

I use a Tormek clone. It's not going to shape tools, just restore the edge. I got it because I was primarily into turning. Turning is in it's own category simply because you are always touching up the edge of a tool. I have a 600 grit diamond wheel on my clone that provides a good edge.

I have blocks of wood that are for setting up the jigs for each tool. For example for my bowl gouge the block has a hole drilled to a specific depth. I slide the Tormek gouge jig onto the gouge then the gouge into the hole in the block. I slide the jig so it's touching the block and now the gouge is at the right depth. The block has a second hole going all the way through it. That's for getting the rest (bar) the correct distance from the wheel. Slide the block on, and then slide the rest so the block is touching the wheel. Written on the block are some numbers that relate to settings on the jig. With this setup I can repeatedly touch up the edge in less than a minute and get back to turning.

I can't help much with other tools as I only have a few and don't do them very often. So I use the clone. Water stones may work great but I would never be able to do much more than touch up an edge. I would want something that could remove nicks from blades. For that even the Tormek would be too slow IMO. A slow speed grinder and CBN wheel with a jig would be my best advice.

[Tim Andrews]

One note about the Veritas side clamp guide; it doesn’t work well with all chisels. I think it depends on the edge profile, and probably works best with better made chisels where the sides aren’t too squared off. I’ve used mine for a couple of weeks with my Marples chisels and they don’t lay consistently flat in the guide, so one edge is lower than the other leading to skewed bevels. I can eventually get it flat by trial and error, but the amount of time it was taking led me down the path of free hand sharpening for my secondary bevels.

I was going to return mine, but decided to keep it because I’m ordering a full set of Veritas PM-V11 bench chisels once they are back in stock.

[Eric Arnsdorff]

Tom I did just order the new Veritas side clamp guide. I hope it performs ok with my plane irons. I have lower end chisels. I am looking to buy a couple of the Veritas chisels as well.

I ordered a 180 grit CBN wheel (3/4” hole) from Woodturners Wonders and received it today. My grinder is a 2 hp 20 mm arbor so I’m taking the wheel to have it bored out tomorrow by a friend. Additionally, Woodcraft had the 1/2 hp Rikon grinder on sale and I bought it. I plan to mount the 2 together so I can grind my soft steel with it as well (lawn mower blades, etc). I’m going to add a honing wheel as well.

I have gotten my water stones out and have a container to keep them in water to save the time for that. I’m going to see how my plane irons and chisels go with them and if it’s too messy/painful I’ll try my Diamond stones and strop. If I can make low hassle sharp edges with this setup then I’m done. I can evaluate if a ceramic stone may help later.. I’m putting in the extra (painful) time now for improved sharpening and less hassle later (sharpening is always painful to me :-).

One further note on hand sharpening that I see mentioned... I think this is a little like an artist telling me to just draw it like he/she can. I could follow every stroke and still not remotely come close to making art. I lack the motor skills to do such things. I would love to have such skills but that just isn’t going to happen. I’ve tried freehand since being a young boy with my hunting knives. I only occasionally accidentally end up with a sharp blade freehand. I need either someone who can do that or I have to rely on equipment. I’m stuck with relying on equipment.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

I use the Veritas Mk II honing guide with a combination of diamond (extra coarse) and Norton water stones (1000, 4000, 8000). Was never particularly satisfied with the edges until I learned about the Unicorn Method here on the Creek. It has been a life-changing (okay, edge changing) discovery. Google David Weaver Unicorn sharpening method and visit Winston Chang’s website. You’ll be glad you did.

[Kevin Adams]

I have found the same thing with my new Veritas side clamp guide while sharpening the blades for my Stanley 48. The LN with narrow jaws works much better in that instance.

Kevin

[roger wiegand]

I've tried many systems, both powered and not over the decades. At this point none have worked better of faster for me than the Lee Valley MkII jig and a set of water stones recommended and sold to me by Lie Neilsen at one of their traveling events. The coarse stones are pretty quick at removing metal, the fine ones leave a mirror polish and perfect edge. It's been years since I've needed to take a plane or chisel blade to a grinding wheel. I don't find any measurable difference in the time it takes to sharpen a flat bevel than a hollow ground one on the water stones. 2-3 strokes on the secondary bevel with the finest stone refreshes the edge nicely; after 5-10 rounds of that I go back to re-shape the primary bevel using the medium and finest stones. I don't keep the stones wet, just spritz them prior to use per the lesson the fellow from L-N gave me. Works great, much less mess. My planes are finally actually sharp for the first time.

For my carving tools I used a powered hard leather wheel charged with a green buffing compound. I've only been carving for a couple of years, none of those tools has yet needed anything more.

Turning tools are sharpened on a 180 grit CBN wheel, honed frequently with a 600 grit diamond card. I have two identical wheels set up, one with the Wolverive varigrind for bowl gouges and one with the wolverine platform for almost everything else.