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Thread: Which tool sharpening system?

  1. #46
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    Hi, I use a Viel belt grinder available from Lee Valley or Viel directly.

    I have the plane iron/cisel attachment for mine, and I use a waterstone for final finishing.

    If I was going to start over again I would use the Viel grinder and abrasive paper for the final finishing..........Regards, Rod.

    P.S. I also have an 8" low speed grinder near the lathe for turning tools.

  2. #47
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    Abrasive paper is extremely expensive over time. I never recommend that approach to students. Oil or water stones and your bench grinder with a CBN wheel.

    Two good stones, a 400 grit Naniwa combined with the finish stone that makes your heart sing and you’re good for many years. I wear out a rough stone about every two years. That would easily cost me hundreds in sandpaper if not more.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 05-17-2021 at 1:16 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  3. #48
    Brian I’ve seen you write twice now that you go from a very rough stone right to a high grit. Is this a new practice for you? What led you to skip the intermediates?

  4. #49
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    Hi Prashun, this is not a new practice for me but something limited to western tools for my shop. I can, but do not often do this for Japanese tools which usually get the full run of stones.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred everett View Post
    This is a timely thread for me as I about to change sharpening up in my shop. I'm staying with a honing guide, and a strop to finish, but I just ordered 3M microfinishing films hoping to move away from stones. Currently, it takes 10 times longer to ready the stones than to it does to sharpen the tools, which only take a few minutes. I'm also hoping to have less mess/cleanup with the films.
    And that is why I now use Shapton stones. Spray and go! :-)

    With sandpaper, I needed to adhere it to something so I had to take the time to do that.

  6. #51
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    Welcome Conrad!

    Where do you live (roughly speaking)? If you are near Columbus Ohio, we can sharpen a few things to get you started! Well, if you are not already, I guess I need to carefully read the rest of your post...

    There are so many ways to have success, it is just a question of "what works best for you". Some of that will be based on innate ability and then choosing a system that compensates for your flaws and your environment. I am not all that steady, so I hollow grind on a Tormek, which then allows me to free hand because the hollow registers nicely on my stones. I do not like soaking so I use things like Shapton (just a quick spray), Arkansas stones (no soaking there), etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad Styles View Post
    Hi y'all, this is my 1st day on the site/community and my first submission. For starters, I am so impressed with all of the helpful input, suggestions and guidance that is offered here! This is supposed to be a touchy subject with many adamant opinions but I don't see even the slightest bit of animosity and/or condescension anywhere in the thread. I think I may have found a great group of people/community and am increasingly excited to be here.
    Great bunch if you count me out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad Styles View Post
    While I am still able to get my blades more than enough sharp using the Trend plate and then "pretending" that I am getting anything done on the Shapton stones, I definitely am not achieving the mirror finishes that I see in all of the youtube vids that I watch and again the part that I feel constantly reminds me that I am not doing it right is that I get no SLURRY! Can't a guy get a little slurry after spending $500 on sharpening equipment?! Man o' man! Anyhow, glad to have found this place and any input here would help and thanks for all the info already given on this topic thus far. Cheers!
    I do not get any slurry from my Shapton stones.

    Have you ever looked at your edges under magnification? This could mean just an 8x to 20x loop (I usually use 10x) just to see what is going on. Sometimes I grab when of those USB microscopes. Something like this one that I ordered that I can connect to my Android Phone, chaper than some loops, it is crazy:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Of course then I ended up spending money on a better holder since the stand it comes with is horrid. So, not great, but, it feels like it does a lot for $20.

    I do not do it so I cannot easily comment, but, if you are sharpening on diamonds then doing the final on your shapton stones, I might expect you to use a micro-bevel. I don't because i use a round stone (Tormek) that leaves a hollow grind so one could argue that I am always doing a micro-bevel....

    You might even want to take a look at the "unicorn" method. I hear it works great on chisels. I have never used it, but that is because I like my hollow grind.

  7. #52
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    I have read all the posts with great interest. I am surprised that NO ONE has mentioned the Sorby Pro Edge system, which has always interested me but I have not pulled the trigger on it.

    I have the Work Sharp product but found I get the best results with the Veritas MK 2 sharpening jigs and diasharp diamond stones (float glass and abrasive paper for the highest grits).

  8. #53
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    Just like Andrew, Tormek plus Shapton pro stones.

  9. #54
    Thanks for the input and suggestions Andrew. I live out in CA, so not close to you at all but thanks for the offer. I just ordered a loop from amazon. So hopefully that can help shed some light on what is going on. I've never heard of the Unicorn method but it looks like I have my next deep dive research topic for the night! I'll update if I am able to get anywhere with this conundrum! Thanks again

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad Styles View Post
    Thanks for the input and suggestions Andrew. I live out in CA, so not close to you at all but thanks for the offer. I just ordered a loop from amazon. So hopefully that can help shed some light on what is going on. I've never heard of the Unicorn method but it looks like I have my next deep dive research topic for the night! I'll update if I am able to get anywhere with this conundrum! Thanks again
    Unicorn Sharpening, a few references:
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....my-imagination
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....d-is-New-Again
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....nicorn-buffing
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....nicorn-Profile

    There was an article about it in one of the wood working magazines this year I think.

  11. #56
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    David Weaver developed it so I trust it’s an excellent method but I haven’t tried it. David’s approaches are thoroughly researched and more importantly they are thoroughly tested.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    David Weaver developed it so I trust it’s an excellent method but I haven’t tried it. David’s approaches are thoroughly researched and more importantly they are thoroughly tested.
    And people here have tested it with positive results. Derek Cohen, for example. Most of the discussion was on a different forum but I do not remember which one (since I am not a member there).

  13. #58
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    I have acquired various things for my sharpening setup. However, I have not had time to get everything working due to my daughter’s wedding and a vacation. Hopefully I can give the unicorn method a try on my cheap chisels and my new Veritas low angle jack plane (PM-V11) as well as my old Stanley #4.
    I have a new 180 grit CBN wheel (bored to 20 mm due to my old large exotic Chinese grinder), 400/1000 grit Diamond stones along with a new Rikon grinder with a soft buffing wheel and green crayon (no clue the grit since it came with an older purchase) to be setup and tried out.
    I also have an old assortment of water stones and a leather stop to compare the methods to. I have an old Wolverine for my lathe tools as well. I also ordered a new Veritas jig because of my very poor ability to sharpen by hand.
    I do think the “Unicorn” method has merit. I did give a try with my cheap chisels with a Dremel mounted buffing wheel with more success than I have with my hand sharpening methods. I also have a lighted loupe which showed me the edge was as good or better than what I typically end up with as well as using it to see when to stop as opposed to guessing. Honestly, the lighted loupe may prove to be one of the best additions and learning tools I have.
    The method has a good “theoretical” basis from at least one aspect. The “round” profile near the tip certainly should add strength to the tip compared to the legacy flat faces creating at the apex. I find this the biggest “duh” item that makes the method somewhat genius (and admittedly not new but definitely dismissed in the past). The idea that my cheap chisels can become as good as the esteemed Veritas PM-V11 is still tough to swallow but I did decide to hold off on the purchase with hopes of good results.
    I’m going to give it a try on my plane irons, cheap chisels and my lathe tools to see how it goes. I plan to use the CBN wheel to get a quick primary bevel then shape a secondary with the 1000 grit Diamond followed by the buffing. My lathe tools pose another challenge as I only have the CBN grind to the buffing planned. I can at least see the edge with my loupe to understand better what happens at the cutting edge.
    I greatly appreciate the more structured comparison methods others are doing. That takes a lot of setup and time to do a proper study. Even if they appear to be case studies at this point, they are much better than many of the qualitative assessments. My method will be a poor qualitative assessment. But if it succeeds it will turn a very poor tool sharpener into an effective one that can now get back to doing what I really prefer which is making stuff from wood!

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by fred everett View Post
    This is a timely thread for me as I about to change sharpening up in my shop. I'm staying with a honing guide, and a strop to finish, but I just ordered 3M microfinishing films hoping to move away from stones. Currently, it takes 10 times longer to ready the stones than to it does to sharpen the tools, which only take a few minutes. I'm also hoping to have less mess/cleanup with the films.
    I was very impressed with the 3M psa micro-finishing films, but I worried about cost so I ordered Trend diamond plates as recommended by Stumpy. The Trends are going back as I can feel the edges of the material about to peel off the one of the plates....wish I'd seen Paul Sellers blog regarding this b4 I ordered them.

    So, I circled back to the 3M psa micro-finishing film for more testing. Took an old chisel and brutalized the 300 grit (40 mic) film scratching very hard fwd and backwards. The film did not tear and only peeled up when I went close to the edge. When it peeled, I cleaned under the edge and stuck it back down. I then took a good chisel and ran it over the same film and got a consistent clean finish on a 25 degree bevel. This convinced me the film is tough enough to handle many normal sharpenings. So the COST.....a great way to address this is steer away from the high grits.....IMO the 8k, 14k and 60k grits not needed. I achieved excellent results with the 300, 600 and 1800 grits. These grits are available in 5 sheet packs that are 8 1/2" x 11" for $15, which when cut into thirds gives me 15 sheets. In short, $45 total for 15 sheets each of 300, 600 and 1800, which for me, will last many years.

    On the honing guide front, I ordered a Veritas MKII w/ narrow blade head which is excellent. At some point I need to move on from the micro-bevels which is the reason I use a guide. I can do everything freehand, but I don't think I'll ever be skilled enough do micro bevels consistently freehand. It's probably phycological but I feel blades are sharper with a micro-bevel.

    At the end of the day my goal is to move away from water stones to a method where I can do a touch up sharpening of a chisel in under 5 minutes. I believe I've found a way with the 3M films, but I believe a course dia plate or stone, and a grinder of some sort, are still part of the overall equation. That's my take, but I'm hoping for opinions as that's how I learn.
    Thanks,
    Fred

  15. #60
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    Fred you might want to try the Diasharp stones instead of the Trend stones. They are more expensive. But they have a continuous surface encrusted with diamond chips. I have found mine to stand up to wear quite well.

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