[OP]
Member
How exactly does one analyze the crosscut capability of these machines? You mention you'd like it to crosscut a 4' sheet comfortably, but the website claims "48 inch squaring stroke". I would've read that as "you can square up a 48 inch piece" but it sounds like that's not the case, is that right? Or is it an "area to the side of the blade" thing?Originally Posted by Erik Loza
Member
At a minimum, you need to add the length of the saw blade in the cut to the stroke length to get a safe cutting length. The length of the saw blade in the cut is going to vary with blade diameter, depth of cut, and how much blade you want to see above the cut, etc.
The position of the miter fence can also make a huge difference. If it only travels from 24" in front of the arbor to 24" behind it, that's a 48" stroke, but it will not even safely cross cut a 24" wide panel.
And depending how far the fence pivot is from the blade when it passes the blade, it has to travel well past the blade for it to be able to cut less than 90 degrees. It may cross cut a 24" panel (or whatever width) at 90 degrees, but will it miter the same board at 45 degrees? Figuring this out can be difficult without seeing the machine in person, with a measuring tape in hand.
-- Andy - Arlington TX
Member
This is good advice. I recently moved to a smaller 1200 sq.ft. place and agonized over placement of everything. After using it for a short while I moved many things from the original plan. The only machines now not on wheels are a Minimax 4e and drill press.
I also looked at combo jointer/planers but the delivery times on the Minimax were way in the future. I settled on a Powermatic 60HH and kept my Makita planer. It's a decision I regret now and will purchase the combo soon and take the hit selling the 60HH.
Member
Yes on this for sure.
Member
The idea of a combo machine sounds good, but having used a few different models in other shops, they mostly annoy me in practice. This is probably because of how I learned and it was mostly on larger separate machines in a larger space. It’s a workflow and convenience factor for me and I really value being able to leave setups on a machine and having the flexibility to go back to that same setting until I decide to or need to change it as opposed to being forced to change it immediately after one operation in order to do the next operation. That’s just me, and I’m sure there are clever ways to work around this to some degree.
I also have a small shop space (around 500 sq ft) and am stubborn and have moved in some large and heavy separate machines that really bring me a lot of joy and precision. This has forced me to undergo serious shop Tetris, get creative with infeed and outfeed spaces being multi function, and not be afraid for ripping stuff apart to some degree and starting over with the shop layout once something has been in use and isn’t really working the way I’d hoped.
I do not, however have a slider in my shop. Up to this point, I have chosen to have 2 table saws back to back - a 10” cabinet saw with 52” fence and a 16” saw with rack and pinion fence and very accurate factory miter gauges. I do wish I had a shorter stroke slider, but I think it would have to be my only table saw and I don’t know that I could reasonably fit a full stroke slider that could dimension full sheets of ply.
I also have a 20” planer, 12” jointer and 1 1/4” spindle shaper (to speak to the other elements of a combo) in this space and really appreciate them being separate machines. The planer and shaper have dedicated spots but are mobile so that helps in certain spatially challenged situations.
I can walk through the shop comfortably enough, but I don’t have a ton of open floor space (more than say 8’x8’) in any given area. I choose to fill out the wide open space with certain machines, but long for more wide open space for assembly, staging material during milling, finishing, etc. It’s always a trade off somewhere in a small shop space - you just have to pick which $#!+ sandwich you prefer to eat!
I do this professionally and often times have tasks that aren’t necessarily building a single piece of furniture from start to finish and the work flow required for some things really benefits from separate machines and being able to jump back and forth between preset machines. This efficiency helps determines my profit, so it’s a bit different than a hobbyist building furniture for the joy of it. I think I could probably be ok with a really nice combo machine is I wasn’t trying to make a living doing this.
Last edited by Phillip Mitchell; 05-01-2021 at 8:53 AM.
Still waters run deep.
Contributor
I'm with Philip. The o.p. may find a small combination machine is a good solution for small scale projects in his limited space and the individual machine functions an upgrade from the ones he has now. For me though having to break down the shaper to cut a replacement blank for one that blew out, or cranking the planer table up and down to switch functions would drive me mad (speaking from experience here).
Member
Depending on the placement of your fence along the sliding table you'll lose a few inches of cutting length eg: in order to crosscut a 48" sheet and clear the leading edge of the blade, you'd need a saw with a 60" stroke to accommodate the fence and support table.
Contributor
I think the OP has to ask himself how he works. Since he has a separate jointer and planer how often does he go back and forth. For me I'm like Phillip. Once I have my planer set for a certain thickness I like to leave it there. Even though it has a digital readout and in theory I should be able to set it to the exact same thickness I just like ti leave it set. Sometimes it'll be weeks later and I decide one board for a project isn't going to work out so I'll mill up a new one. Other times I go back and forth between the jointer and planer.
That being said I could see where a combo jointer/ planer could be nice. Having a wider jointer than my current 8" is tempting. But adding in a table saw too? I don't think I would care much for that. I only use my shaper by itself so if it was built into another machine I don't think it would have much of an impact on the way I work. Everything but the tools that can be up against a wall (lathe, drill press, oscillating spindle sander, and mortiser) are on mobile bases. I have a general way of laying them out when doing a job but it's not set so if needed I can push one out of the way to work with longer material.
Member
Yes, it can be annoying but it does force you to be more efficient so you actually work up to a level where changeovers aren't much of a factor. It is a way to get quality machines into a small space, so the gains can be worth the hassle. I recommend separates if you have the space, but good combos are definitely worth a look if not.
Contributor
Bert, it sounds like a single garage .. is this so?
I have a double garage, however only use one side as there needs to be clear space for parking one car. My focus remains on hand tool use, so the machines are laid out to create space for a work bench at one end and a short slider (49”) in the centre. While pretty crowded, it feels more spacious as there is an open bay, and I can wheel machines, such as a Festool CT26, into this area.
My combination machines include a Hammer A3-31 (I am very happy with this jointer/planer), which provides more jointing width for its price. The table saw is a Hammer K3 slider with 49” wagon (perfect for solid wood-orientated furniture makers). There is also a router table in its outfeed.
Positioning the machines depends on your work flow, and for myself I could cram together these three (just enough space to work them in this permanent position) ....
An earlier photo of the K3, but you get an idea of size. It actually is smaller overall than the contractor saw with 52” rails it replaced ...
Together, these machines take about 2/3 of the length. These is also a full size lathe along the wall, and space given to dust collection. Dust collection could be a space saver if placed outside, which I cannot do. My next big (and last purchase before retiring in a couple of years) with likely be the Harvey Gyro, which is the most compact serious machine I currently am aware of.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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