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Thread: Lie Nielsen Honing Guide - i.e. Confusion Generator

  1. #1

    Lie Nielsen Honing Guide - i.e. Confusion Generator

    The Lie Nielsen Honing Guide with the standard jaws appears to have two levels/places in which to insert the blade for honing.

    The lower level has straight sided jaws and placing a blade there it will rest on the guide's two rods. This blade location is very simple to register.
    There'a higher level with angles cut outs that seems made for bevel edge chisels. This location is a little trickier to register a thick straight sided plane blade like a Veritas bevel up blade).

    I've only sharpened the Veritas bevel up jointer once. Lie Nielsen's Honing Guide instructions make no mention which position to insert the blade in the guide. My first instinct is to use the upper position with the angled cutouts, however the lower position is easier to quickly register the thick Veritas blade.

    I'm using a protrusion angle setting jig built according to Lie Nielsen's plans.
    It now occurs to me that placing the blade in either the upper or lower positions in the guide is going to alter the bevel angle of the blade edge against the stone? Further, the distance/angle measurements for constructing the protrusion jig according to their plans fair to specify which Guide blade position the jig the angle measurements are intended for.

    Further, I now cannot remember which position in the Honing Guide I placed the jointer blade when I previously sharpened it.

    I had figured the flat lapped Veritas blade and the precision Lie Nielsen Honing Guide would finally make sharpening less onerous, simpler, and repeatable. It now feels like I have no way to repeat the angles I used previously ... it's no more accurate than flipping a coin on which angle to use. I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

    ----

    Reviewing my notes on the angle to sharpen this jointer plane blade, Lie Nielsen's written sharpening instruction sheet
    recommends sharpening 25 degree plane blades to a 35 degree micro bevel.

    "Note: The 35 angle will result in a 10 ‘microbevel’ or secondary bevel. This secondary bevel concentrates all of your sharpening energy on the very edge of the blade—this is the only part of the blade that needs honing, because it is the only part of the blade that does the work. "

    However in Lie Nielsen's plane sharpening video the secondary angle is given at 30 (ever hear of consistency in messaging and instructions?!).


    ---------------------

    Regarding the Veritas Bevel Up Jointer Plane blade : what angle secondary bevel is typically recommended? (Btw, I'll be using the ruler trick):
    35
    30
    27 (i.e. use the 25 position on the protrusion jig and add the shim for a final angle of 27)


    Thanks a bunch for any input!
    Last edited by Ned Mcbee; 04-26-2021 at 7:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    West Granby CT
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    I have had this guide since it came out. Not sure I knew there was an upper and lower position? Just walked out to the shop to check, maybe I just got lucky and used the right one? After looking at it I guess I’m not sure what you mean, I only see one spot to clamp the blade.

    Maybe try LN, they have great customer service.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    El Dorado Hills, CA, USA
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    I too am staring at the LN guide trying to understand where you might be seeing two places to mount an iron. Here's a pic of mine, with the standard jaws, and the placement of where I put my LN irons, as well as my Veritas bench chisels.

    IMG_2439.jpg

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    On mine with the regular jaws I have always used the upper slot with the angled cutouts rather than trying to clamp in the lower parallel sides.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Ventura, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Mcbee View Post
    The Lie Nielsen Honing Guide with the standard jaws appears to have two levels/places in which to insert the blade for honing.
    This is the source of your confusion....

    The LN honing guide is designed to be used with the blade what you would call the "upper" location.

    While you may be able to put a blade in the "lower" position, that is not how the tool is intended to be used.

    So go back to square 1 with the idea of only using the intended location for your blade and you will be well on your way to success.

    Sharpening is like many meaningful skills... a bit of a challenge to learn, but once learned, very satisfying to do.

    Don't let the initial frustration get you down.

    If you are having trouble, I suggest David Charlesworth's Sharpening DVD's. Use his methods and you will achieve success very quickly.

    -TH

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    To help with remembering, I write on the plane iron with a felt pen. Information may be bevel, micro bevel, method or whatever it is that you need to know next time you pull the cutter from the tool.
    I always forget . . . Is it the letter "S" or the letter "C" that is silent in the word scent?
    - Glenn (the second "N" is silent) Bradley

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    To help with remembering, I write on the plane iron with a felt pen. Information may be bevel, micro bevel, method or whatever it is that you need to know next time you pull the cutter from the tool.
    A Bevel gauge makes it much easier > https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...e?item=50K0901

    Veritas Bevel Gauge.jpg

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    I don't have the LN one, but using the real Eclipse, I drop some things down on the bars too, like some mortise chisels.

  9. #9
    The PDF instructions do not make mention on any position other than the top position. That isn't to say one couldn't use another position, but the guide doesn't seem to be designed for that use.

    Left click my name for homepage link.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Looks like he's managed to fit a blade under the guides, he said it was resting on top of the rods.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    The responders that speak of a single blade holding position on the LN guide are correct. There are different jaw sets for certain sharpening tasks.

  12. #12
    Thanks for all the replies and confirmation.
    This was a tool only used a few times and months ago ... after deciding I desperately needed to systematize, simplify (dramatically reduce the complexity), and improve the efficiency my sharpening regimen. I'm not quite there yet.
    Recently using it - in a rush - my Eclipse guide dual level system kicked in. The angled jaws looked made to mate with the beveled edges of a chisel. The path of least resistance was to let the blade drop onto the bars where the 90 jaws grip it sort of like the Eclipse plane blade jaws ... but it's also the path of least secure grip on the LN guide. Duh.

    (i.e. I'm working on LN's idiot proofing research

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    West Granby CT
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    I have used it on plane blades, and chisels, it holds them rock solid and perfectly registered for me. Maybe give it another try?

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    You have discovered that the Eclipse guides, both genuine and knockoffs, gave two sets of grooves two choose from. The mistake you made was assuming that the LN guide had something similar, which it does not. As has been said many times before, the LN guide was developed for LN blades. It can be used for some other brands of plane blades; but non-LN chisels will often not work in that guide. It looks like the new Lee Valley guide might be a better choice for assorted chisels, but read the threads that are beginning to appear now about that guide.

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