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Thread: Electric Car Challenges

  1. #91
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    Hydrogen safety my chance to mention the BRT at the lab. They had a hydrogen bubble chamber with something like 400 gallons of liquid hydrogen in it. They had a emergency drain valve on the bottom that drained into a special sewer underground that ran by gravity to the top of the BRT just downhill. The hydrogen was at a critical temperature so any particles going through it would form bubbles that could be seen and tracked. Probably just under boiling point?
    Any way. The brt was a 20' diameter sphere filled with old aluminum cans, squashed flat, as a heat sink so the liquid would vaporize and be flared off if needed.
    BRT= Big Round Thing.
    Bil lD

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    The recent Tesla car that crashed with no driver Musk stated then driver had not subscribed for the fancier self driving function it just had the basic free cruise control.
    Bill D.
    That's what the media is spinning it to sound like. What I got from his quote is the car didn't have their new self driving option. That's an option where you can call the car to you from a parking spot and has the ability t follow markings on the road without any input from a driver. Not the same as their "autopilot" which is a fancy cruse control that brakes and steers while a person has their hands on the steering wheel. The clue is that the package Kusk said wasn't on the car costs $10k.

    What most likely happened is they had the autopilot on and found a way around being in the driver's seat and having a hand on the steering wheel. Still a problem for Tesla.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by John Stankus View Post
    Actually, it's Dr. Stankus.

    ...(definitely behaving non-ideally)...
    Clearly a higher authority! And I am definitely behaving so, just ask SWMBO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    ... the direction for software ...
    I bet a month's pay this is the onrushing model for nearly all software dependent devices; from cell phones, to PCs, to cars. It creates an ongoing revenue stream for the entire organization.

    Microsoft has been buttery for years at the idea of 'renting' you a hole in their firewall. You will possess a Thin Client (box) and thru the MS hole will pass everything - until you forget to pay the bill. What blue screen of death? That's just the nonpayment reminder.

    Software vendors have already started down this path: purchase a runtime license for $8000 (1-time CAPEX); or rent it for $1500/yr forever (or at least the life of the application). But renting is in OPEX! And what Project Engineer doesn't themselves get buttery at saving a few bucks on their budget - and shifting it over to those slugs in Operations.

    Trying to maintain topic - -
    For EVs, motors make enormous sense in this application. Motors have been around a long time. The efficiency & maintainability is there.
    We (at least in the US) CAN charge/fuel them with current. If (__*__) doesn't squash it, the energy is there.

    So why has it taken 100 yrs or more to get to this current age's stampede to EV ownership?
    The storage medium -- the battery -- is the weak link, and has been for decades. I'd argue the oil industry conspiracy has never had to squash ANY EV tech. The auto makers handle that quite nicely all by their lonesome - with more than a little bit of help from basic battery chemistry. (Someone mentioned buggy whips - - Wonder how many folks thought horse breeders, wagon builders, and whip makers conspired to halt Mr. Ford? That evil Derby Cabal!) ...Believe what you will.

    Doesn't take much research to find buckets of data on new battery tech: Li-S, aluminum, solid-state, mass-less structural, and so on. Everyone of them has some generally significant drawback in raw material sourcing, cost, lifespan, charge time, weight, toxicity, metallic dendrite growth, or energy density. Everyone of them generally needs some sort of 'breakthrough' to enable it. LOTS of research in the area, and we'll get there. Where ever there is. But at the moment there's an old saying about 'wish in one hand, and...' - - well, you have probably all heard that.

    *- insert whatever organization you wish. And be sure to take a look at population growth too.
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 05-03-2021 at 8:43 AM. Reason: Sulphur (S); not 'Su' (..sugar??). Proof-reading is a lost art.

  4. #94
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    When I worked for a crop service we had 25 smaller ammonia tanks and 1 large one never had any accidents in the 10 years I worked there.

  5. #95
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    The problem with subscription based services is that people (or companies) find a way around it. Whether it's reverting to an older version, hacking it, or just replacing the software with something free. Android sales took off mainly because of Apple's tight control over everything iPhone. The first car company to try this will most likely loose sales to other brands. GM has tried to offer monthly services like On-Star but it's never taken off. I've seen a few vehicles that say they can connect directly to the internet (for a monthly fee) yet if it was popular every model of every brand would have it as an option. Why would I want to pay an extra fee to make my vehicle connect to the internet when my phone already does and is much more portable than my car? That's the great thing about capitalism. If you get too greedy someone will undercut you.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Zeller View Post
    If you get too greedy someone will undercut you.
    Android outsells Apple nine to one worldwide by unit sales.
    Apple's market cap is twice that of Google (2 trillion vs 1 trillion)
    Apple made $261 billion last year, Google (Alphabet) made $162 billion.
    Apple made nearly as much on iPhones ($142 billion) as all of Alphabet.

    I'd say they are both doing fine.

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Zeller View Post
    The problem with subscription based services is that people (or companies) find a way around it. Whether it's reverting to an older version, hacking it, or just replacing the software with something free. Android sales took off mainly because of Apple's tight control over everything iPhone. The first car company to try this will most likely lose sales to other brands. GM has tried to offer monthly services like On-Star but it's never taken off. I've seen a few vehicles that say they can connect directly to the internet (for a monthly fee) yet if it was popular every model of every brand would have it as an option. Why would I want to pay an extra fee to make my vehicle connect to the internet when my phone already does and is much more portable than my car? That's the great thing about capitalism. If you get too greedy someone will undercut you.
    Perhaps you misunderstand what it means to have your vehicle connected to the Internet. You will connect your car to your in-home WiFi, just as you connect your smartphone to your in-home WiFi. The reason for doing this is so that you can receive software updates to your vehicle. Your vehicle will also report its maintenance status to the company so that they can inform you of problems that need service. I suspect they will collect a lot more data that they don't tell us about. When you drive away from your home, you will lose that Internet connection.

    This connection to the Internet is not just for EVs. Ford, for example, does this for all of their new cars.

    Regarding hacking the software in a car, there are ways to detect "foreign" software in a system, as your virus detection software does. I suspect that if they detect any "foreign" software they will treat it as a virus and shut down that part of the car, or even the whole car. It will likely also void the warrantee. Tesla has a pretty robust software protection system in their vehicles - I haven't heard of anyone hacking it yet.

    If there is a hole in the software security, they will send out an update to patch the hole, as Microsoft does with Windows today. Hacking a vehicle's software is something that a lot of people have spent a lot of time thinking about. If your vehicle's software could be hacked, a lot of dangerous things could be done. For example, your brakes might not work, or your car might accelerate to 70 miles per hour and you wouldn't be able to slow down. Keeping foreign software out of the vehicle system is a very high priority to the companies.

    Regarding subscriptions for various features, we'll just have to wait and see. But the financial advantage to the company is so great that I don't see any way to stop it.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 05-02-2021 at 9:12 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by roger wiegand View Post
    Android outsells Apple nine to one worldwide by unit sales.
    Apple's market cap is twice that of Google (2 trillion vs 1 trillion)
    Apple made $261 billion last year, Google (Alphabet) made $162 billion.
    Apple made nearly as much on iPhones ($142 billion) as all of Alphabet.

    I'd say they are both doing fine.
    Yeah, the reason companies use Android is that it's the only viable software system that's available to them. If you're not Apple and you want to compete in the smartphone business, what are you going to use for your operating system? To be successful, there has to be a lot of apps that run on your smartphone so you can't write your own operating system. You have to use Android because that's where the apps are (if you're not Apple).

    The primary reason Android systems sell so many units is because the manufacturers who make cheap smartphones use Android. But even with that, I believe Apple sells more units of smartphones than any other single manufacturer.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  9. #99
    Some of our Walmarts have special shelters for the Amish to park their buggies with the horses having shade and even water at some. At the Walmart on the south side of Ephrata PA, I think the shelter has 8 bays for horse and buggy parking.

  10. #100
    Wow, an insurmountable problem, how to heat an EV in very cold weather. Ironic how the Amish are able to heat their enclosed buggies in Winter without expending the horses energy. (I returned from an outdoor trip during zero degree weather and my daughter asked how I stayed warm. I showed her the pocket warmers I had left over from hunting trips 40 years ago. I explained how they work. She gave me a puzzled look and then asked "You carried a fire around in your pocket?" )

  11. #101
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    I believe early EVs used resistance heating, which will certainly kill a battery in a hurry. AFAIK more modern ones use a heat pump-- an automotive mini-split as it were. Much more efficient.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Hilbert Jr View Post
    Wow, an insurmountable problem, how to heat an EV in very cold weather. Ironic how the Amish are able to heat their enclosed buggies in Winter without expending the horses energy. (I returned from an outdoor trip during zero degree weather and my daughter asked how I stayed warm. I showed her the pocket warmers I had left over from hunting trips 40 years ago. I explained how they work. She gave me a puzzled look and then asked "You carried a fire around in your pocket?" )
    Have you ever seen a Amish buggy in the winter. They bundle up and stay close to each other

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Zeller View Post
    The clue is that the package Kusk said wasn't on the car costs $10k.

    What most likely happened is they had the autopilot on and found a way around being in the driver's seat and having a hand on the steering wheel. Still a problem for Tesla.
    Chris Porter, the comedian took this on, in 2018 -
    "Ugly and Angry".

    *There's enough people on this planet to start culling the herd. I'm not suggesting we kill the stupid. Just let them do it themselves. Start taking some warning labels off.*

    The YouTube clip is NSFW so I shan't provide the link.

  14. #104
    There are several types of Amish. Around here, they have heaters in their storm front carriages, even defrosters of a sort. I am only 20 miles from Lancaster PA and have Amish neighbors. And the way the boys "customize" theirs, with shag carpet, stereo's, etc. They even have hydraulic brakes. I get a magazine for "plain communities" and there are multiple ads for carriage heaters every issue. (The newly made wringer washers that operate on power tool batteries are another odd thing)

  15. #105
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    I hear that there is a dramatic improvement in air quality in Chinese cities, after going to EV's.

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