Electric Car Challenges

[Mike Henderson]

My opinion is that EVs will sell first to people who own homes. They have the ability to charge overnight. Next will be renters who have dedicated parking spots, perhaps in the bottom of the building. Those will be provided with power outlets and those outlets will be metered and charged to the renter.

The last group will be renters who do not have dedicated parking spots and they will have to use public chargers. Depending on their employment, they may have access to charging at work.

Mike

[Rich Engelhardt]

I have to figure out how to reword this..

It came across all wrong.

We have 6 rental houses & they all will need some sort of (expensive) wiring done to make them EV friendly.

[Larry Frank]

The EV car issues are interesting and challenging. The last time I bought a car I looked at them. I was concerned due to the range in cold weather which is greatly reduced. In brutal cold weather, the range is short and takes significant power to heat the car.

I would also like to hear if they have the capability to recycle the batteries. The use of rechargeable batteries is greatly increasing and there is a need to safely and economically recycle them. It reminds me of the issues of trying to take care of spent nuclear fuel.

[Rod Sheridan]

The EV car issues are interesting and challenging. The last time I bought a car I looked at them. I was concerned due to the range in cold weather which is greatly reduced. In brutal cold weather, the range is short and takes significant power to heat the car.

I would also like to hear if they have the capability to recycle the batteries. The use of rechargeable batteries is greatly increasing and there is a need to safely and economically recycle them. It reminds me of the issues of trying to take care of spent nuclear fuel.

There's a large Lithium Ion battery recycling facility being built in Rochester at the old Kodak site if I remember correctly.

Just like the recycling sucess that lead acid batteries are, other battery technologies will be as well.........Rod.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Wow, an insurmountable problem, how to heat an EV in very cold weather. Ironic how the Amish are able to heat their enclosed buggies in Winter without expending the horses energy. (I returned from an outdoor trip during zero degree weather and my daughter asked how I stayed warm. I showed her the pocket warmers I had left over from hunting trips 40 years ago. I explained how they work. She gave me a puzzled look and then asked "You carried a fire around in your pocket?" )

[roger wiegand]

I believe early EVs used resistance heating, which will certainly kill a battery in a hurry. AFAIK more modern ones use a heat pump-- an automotive mini-split as it were. Much more efficient.

[Jerome Stanek]

Wow, an insurmountable problem, how to heat an EV in very cold weather. Ironic how the Amish are able to heat their enclosed buggies in Winter without expending the horses energy. (I returned from an outdoor trip during zero degree weather and my daughter asked how I stayed warm. I showed her the pocket warmers I had left over from hunting trips 40 years ago. I explained how they work. She gave me a puzzled look and then asked "You carried a fire around in your pocket?" )

Have you ever seen a Amish buggy in the winter. They bundle up and stay close to each other

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

There are several types of Amish. Around here, they have heaters in their storm front carriages, even defrosters of a sort. I am only 20 miles from Lancaster PA and have Amish neighbors. And the way the boys "customize" theirs, with shag carpet, stereo's, etc. They even have hydraulic brakes. I get a magazine for "plain communities" and there are multiple ads for carriage heaters every issue. (The newly made wringer washers that operate on power tool batteries are another odd thing)

[Tom M King]

I hear that there is a dramatic improvement in air quality in Chinese cities, after going to EV's.

[Erik Loza]

There are several types of Amish. Around here, they have heaters in their storm front carriages, even defrosters of a sort. I am only 20 miles from Lancaster PA and have Amish neighbors. And the way the boys "customize" theirs, with shag carpet, stereo's, etc. They even have hydraulic brakes. I get a magazine for "plain communities" and there are multiple ads for carriage heaters every issue. (The newly made wringer washers that operate on power tool batteries are another odd thing)

Not to jack this thread but I always found the Amish (and Mennonites?) really interesting to talk with from a woodworking machinery perspective. I don't really deal with them now that I'm with Felder but did quote often during my Italian days. I remember one gentleman asking if we could offer an edgebander without motors (we wouldn't). He bought it anyway and I guess, sold the motor? Anyhow, the interesting part was how the various groups ran their equipment. Some seemed to run machines normally, but their facilities were powered by diesel generators. Others gutted out the machines and ran them off some giant steam-powered mainshaft with pulleys. It seemed like every group had their own way of driving things, which was super-interesting.

Erik

[Mike Henderson]

Not to jack this thread but I always found the Amish (and Mennonites?) really interesting to talk with from a woodworking machinery perspective. I don't really deal with them now that I'm with Felder but did quote often during my Italian days. I remember one gentleman asking if we could offer an edgebander without motors (we wouldn't). He bought it anyway and I guess, sold the motor? Anyhow, the interesting part was how the various groups ran their equipment. Some seemed to run machines normally, but their facilities were powered by diesel generators. Others gutted out the machines and ran them off some giant steam-powered mainshaft with pulleys. It seemed like every group had their own way of driving things, which was super-interesting.

Erik

I had a chance to visit an Amish woodworker's shop. On first look, it looked like any other woodworking shop. All the machines were modern. On closer examination, I found that all the motors had been replaced by hydraulic motors. There was an engine (gas or diesel, don't know) at one end of the shop that pumped the hydraulic fluid and each tool had valve.

Hand tools, like sanders were more of a problem. He had long flexible shafts that were driven by a hydraulic motor and came down into the tool where the motor was. That seemed to make them awkward to handle but they managed. The shop had lots of skylights in the roof and they could be opened for exhausting heat in the summer.

But they were not beyond using modern things. He had a bunch of top chair rails (maybe for rocking chairs) in the shop. They had a design in the center of the rail. I said to him, "Do you carve these during the winter?" He replied "No, I buy them that way. The manufacturer uses a high pressure press and presses the design into the rails."

As long as it's not forbidden by their religion, they'll use it.

Same with combines (harvesting). The need power on the combine (to process the corn, for example) so they can have a diesel engine on the combine, but the combine has to be pulled by horses. Essentially all welding is arc type welding so they use electricity for that. But it has to be generated at the shop - can't connect to the grid. They can't have phones in their houses so they would have a "phone box" in front of their house with a land line in it. Now days, they need cell phones for their business and many seem to have them. I don't know about Internet access.

I visited an Amish store and it was illuminated with gas lights. Interesting things in the store, such as white gas powered clothes iron. You light it, just like the old Coleman gas lanterns, wait for it to get hot, and iron away.

The Amish run businesses and the bishops are aware that they have to compete with "The English" (non-Amish people) so many compromises are made. My first wife's family lived in Amish country and we used to visit. Took the opportunity to learn more about the Amish and the Mennonites, who also live in the area. The joke was that the difference between them was that the Mennonites would ride as a passenger in a car.

Mike

[Far as I know, the Amish sell the motors they take out of the big power tools.]

[Keith Outten]

The topic of this thread is Electric Car Challenges.

[Erik Loza]

The topic of this thread is Electric Car Challenges.

Sorry, Keith.

[Doug Garson]

When I lived back in Ontario a few decades ago we were near Mennonite country. The dairy farms needed to have refrigeration for the milk to meet health department rules. So the barns had electricity but the houses did not. Last time we were back east a few years ago we still saw horses and buggies. Guess they won't be adopting EV's real soon.

[Bill Dufour]

In California when someone buys an existing gas station the first step is to pull out the old tanks and the dirt around them and throw it all away. Even more if any gas is found in the soil. Then they install the multiple layer gas tanks with sensors in each layer. They do this so they can not be sued if gas is found in the soil later on or water table nearby. That liability to clean it up lasts fore ever even after the property is sold unless you can prove you did not cause it.
So 50,000 for charger seems cheap to me with no long term liability for petroleum spills.
Bil lD