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Thread: Convert Jointer Guard from European bridge style to American Porkchop Style

  1. #46
    Seldom any operating instructions with machines. I try to understand why the machine design is the way it is. The Euroguard on my hammer is adjusted down close to the workpiece and is spring loaded downwards. So I assumed I was to keep pressure on the workpiece as my hand crossed the guard by pushing the guard against the wood. Works for me.

  2. #47
    Edge jointing a board

    There was a mention about pushing a board thru a jointer with your thumb. This is how I was taught by the old German cabinetmaker that I worked under those many years ago. You left hand holds the board against the fence with finger pressure on the face of the board and your thumb on top of the board holds the board down against the outfeed table. Your right hand is inverted with palm facing away and fingers on top edge of board with thumb at top corner pushing the board. I do this automatically every time.

    Not for face jointing.

  3. #48
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    I vastly prefer the Euro guard on my A3-41 to any porkchop guard, particularly for face jointing.

    My great uncle lost three fingers face jointing a board with a porkchop guard, when the cutterhead shattered the workpiece under his hand, sending that hand plunging into the cutter head.

    Yes, he was using a poor practice, but a Euro guard would have prevented that poor practice (and repeatedly forced him to become comfortable with the correct practice.)

    It is easy to forget where your trailing hand is when you are focusing on applying steady pressure with your leading hand over the outfeed table. A euro guard will safely remind you.

    A guard that covers the surface of the workpiece over the cutter head (like a Euro guard) will prevent the poor practice that can lead to that kind of accident.

    -- Andy - Arlington TX

  4. #49
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    This rough and tumble, but extremely talented woodworker I worked with for a few days pulled his 8/4 or 6/4 lumber back towards him along the jointer table after jointing it (no guard). In other words, he pulled the piece (tilted obviously so only the end touched) along both beds and across the cutter. Seemed to work out just fine and took a lot less effort to move lumber.

    The guy built pieces for a furniture company that was overloaded. They used CNC's etc. This guy did it all with basic equipment. Point being, he knew his stuff and this is what he did. Food for thought.

  5. #50
    Andrew, Used to be a common practice, but when OSHA came in it was deemed to be too much trouble, since it could not be left off. Was still
    used where only a couple guys ever used the jointer.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew whicker View Post
    This rough and tumble, but extremely talented woodworker I worked with for a few days pulled his 8/4 or 6/4 lumber back towards him along the jointer table after jointing it (no guard). In other words, he pulled the piece (tilted obviously so only the end touched) along both beds and across the cutter. Seemed to work out just fine and took a lot less effort to move lumber.

    The guy built pieces for a furniture company that was overloaded. They used CNC's etc. This guy did it all with basic equipment. Point being, he knew his stuff and this is what he did. Food for thought.

    This is climb cutting power return on a roughing jointer. For rough edge jointing big wood (8/4 x 10" x 8') prior to rough ripping, the cutter head brings the wood back for a second pass. Knife and head type will determine feed rate. I have a 16" jointer with a two knife clamshell head. There is launch potential. A technique best avoided until you have been using the same jointer for 30 years.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy D Jones View Post
    I vastly prefer the Euro guard on my A3-41 to any porkchop guard, particularly for face jointing.

    My great uncle lost three fingers face jointing a board with a porkchop guard, when the cutterhead shattered the workpiece under his hand, sending that hand plunging into the cutter head.

    Yes, he was using a poor practice, but a Euro guard would have prevented that poor practice (and repeatedly forced him to become comfortable with the correct practice.)

    It is easy to forget where your trailing hand is when you are focusing on applying steady pressure with your leading hand over the outfeed table. A euro guard will safely remind you.

    A guard that covers the surface of the workpiece over the cutter head (like a Euro guard) will prevent the poor practice that can lead to that kind of accident.

    -- Andy - Arlington TX
    No the euro guard will not keep your hand from falling into the knife in such an accident because the guard being high enough to ride over he stock leave a gaping void of exposed cutterhead. If your hand was pushing straight down, maybe but it's not. You are pushing forward and down. There is always some cutter exposed between the operator and stock because of this too.

  8. #53
    This is an interesting set up.

    aaa.JPG

    Dragging back done it more times than I can remember. Its likely mostly to longer stuff. There is no launch least not my high speed steel knife stuff and cut depth. The only neg that ive felt is wondering if it increases dulling the knives. Some really long stuff likely not at the jointer but far down the board using care, like long stuff on a table saw.

    We learned on pork chops and were told lift your hand over the knife area. Really the wood over the knives is the guard but that changes with the wood, is the wood 10 feet long or is it short? Here is a thing id never do. A simple push device would be safe. Ive had to do enough quantity stuff in the past and this would be slow and annoying and left hand comes up and no down pressure on the material. To me this is what a teacher would teach you compared to the old guys i knew that were teachers but apprenticed and on machines all their lives first then teaching in their retirement years.



    Captureyyyy.JPG

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Rozmiarek View Post
    No the euro guard will not keep your hand from falling into the knife in such an accident because the guard being high enough to ride over he stock leave a gaping void of exposed cutterhead. If your hand was pushing straight down, maybe but it's not. You are pushing forward and down. There is always some cutter exposed between the operator and stock because of this too.
    A Euro guard helps train and remind the user to avoid the cutter head as the guard is used, by blocking the user from pressing down on the stock while their hand passes near the cutter head when face jointing.

    A pork chop guard does not do that.

    The Euro guards I have seen and used are also significantly wider (i.e. longer in the direction of cut) than the exposed cutter head between the tables, further helping to keep fingers safely away from the cutter head.

    Also, the thicker the stock being face jointed, the less likely it is to completely shatter over the cutter head, which means that the bigger the potential gap between table and Euro guard, the less likely the gap is to occur.

    The more likely stock to shatter completely is relatively thin, which leaves a much narrower gap between a (properly adjusted) Euro guard and table, through which the hand might contact the cutter head under the Euro guard, in the event of shattering.

    Do you really want to compare the gaping void (your words) between Euro guard and table when surface jointing and the stock shatters, with that of a pork chop that has swung completely out of the way?

    But in the end, no guard is perfect, not even the one between our ears, though both work best in tandem.

    -- Andy - Arlington TX

  10. #55
    40 years jointing material never had a board "shatter" you mention it repeatedly. At one point I jointed so much rough red oak that my palms were like a roofers knuckles. Any roofers will get that. I didn't get slivers anymore as they could not puncture me.

    Just because you have no guard at all doesn't mean you cant lift your hand anyway. That was how we were taught. I never bought a board in my life that would have so much of a defect that it would shatter.

  11. #56
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    I agree with Warren, my father taught me when I was very young that I was to rely upon good procedure, planning and intuition and not so called guards. A jointer guard doesn’t do much in the best case scenario and worst case they do nothing at all.

    One thing he instilled in me that I feel is very important is to avoid trying to ‘save’ a part being eaten by machinery. Many people have the instinct to grab a part that is coming to pieces, I feel one is better off to kill the machine and either hold firm or retract extremities depending on what’s going down.

    My father’s basic teachings have saved me from injury at times. Not sure different guarding would have resolved any of those scenarios.

    This was drilled into me when I started racing cars, the older folks at the track that had a lot of experience showed me how to properly shut down if things went awry. I only had to use that shut down procedure one time, but when that time came I coasted to a safe stop, without that knowledge perhaps my family would have gotten a notification. I’ve seen people wreck who did not shut down properly. Will it save you every time? Probably not, but better with that muscle memory than without.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 05-14-2021 at 1:34 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  12. #57
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    I just got my A3-41 a few months ago. Before that I had an old 6" that I pretty much never used. I've only used it with push blocks (the cheap ones with foam on the bottom). I don't feel comfortable at all doing it bare handed. Any small piece i use hand tools. That picture Warren posted of the small piece is below what I would stick on the 16". Am I too cautious? I'm more worried about an injury on that big cutterhead than anything else in my shop.

    Just to double check my technique: I push through the front of the cut and then get my second hand on the top on the outfeed side and then hand over hand. My results are fine but wondering if that is actually the right way to do it.

  13. #58
    I had a (fortunately) minor cut on one finger from the jointer a couple of years ago that got my attention. Since then I almost always use push blocks like these https://www.homedepot.com/p/QEP-4-in...0060/310829229 when facing. Even then, it is safest to lift the blocks when passing over the cutterhead.

    I have worn gloves in the shop for some time due to nerve damage that leaves my hands uncomfortably cold in nearly all weather, but recently I started use them with the fingers cut off off except when handling material away from rotating machinery. My workmate lost the tip of one finger when a trailing glove pulled it into the jointer. (He bought a rather pricy mountain bike with the workmen's comp settlement, which he christened "Just the tip".

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    I agree with Warren, my father taught me when I was very young that I was to rely upon good procedure, planning and intuition and not so called guards. A jointer guard doesn’t do much in the best case scenario and worst case they do nothing at all.

    One thing he instilled in me that I feel is very important is to avoid trying to ‘save’ a part being eaten by machinery. Many people have the instinct to grab a part that is coming to pieces, I feel one is better off to kill the machine and either hold firm or retract extremities depending on what’s going down.

    My father’s basic teachings have saved me from injury at times. Not sure different guarding would have resolved any of those scenarios.

    This was drilled into me when I started racing cars, the older folks at the track that had a lot of experience showed me how to properly shut down if things went awry. I only had to use that shut down procedure one time, but when that time came I coasted to a safe stop, without that knowledge perhaps my family would have gotten a notification. I’ve seen people wreck who did not shut down properly. Will it save you every time? Probably not, but better with that muscle memory than without.
    Im verging on being annoying--i know--but did you receive the guard?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Kane View Post
    Im verging on being annoying--i know--but did you receive the guard?
    Not yet, it supposed to take a while. It took me four weeks to get a set of wrenches from Germany that were in stock so I guess it just takes a while when ordering from Germany at the moment.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

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