Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 34

Thread: Chemical and Heat Resistance Results: Part II

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    7,380
    Thanks for doing the additional testing Prashun. I wasn't condemning EM-8000CV. I was reporting comparative data against common household chemicals and drawing conclusions as to which products performed better. The fact that EM-8000CV didn't do as well as EnduroVar was disappointing but facts are stubborn things. Your testing showed witness marks for both the Windex and bourbon, and a white spot from the Windex. Maybe they will disappear over time, but I'd rather use a finish where that doesn't happen at all. Some customers will call you back at the least sign of a problem. Others never call you back. Neither is desirable.

    In the waterborne product line I'm still looking for a finish as good as oil based varnish.

    John

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    7,380
    I was reading about Milesi finishes and they referenced coffee as being a problem so I decided to test a subset of the finish specimens for reaction to coffee, specifically espresso. You can see damage on some areas of the EM-8000CV from prior testing.

    Here are Arm-R-Seal, EM-8000CV + 4% Crosslinker, and EnduroVar with espresso cups on them. I drooled 2 ml of warm espresso down the sides of the cups, as you might if you spilled your coffee a little.



    After 4 hours they looked like this when I picked up the cups:



    After 8 hours I removed the cups again:



    Then I wiped them clean with a wet sponge and dry them with a dish towel. This is what they looked like:



    Photographed the other way:




    I found no effects on the ARS or EnduroVar specimens, while the EM-8000CV + 4% CL had a stain.

    John

  3. #18
    John, I have spilled a few coffees on my island and never had an issue. After your post yesterday, I ran the same test you did - coffee ring left for 8 hours on the em8000cv with cross linker. I will post pix when I can get to a computer but I found no staining, no bleaching, and only the faintest of witness marks. It was no where near the fail you recorded.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    7,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    John, I have spilled a few coffees on my island and never had an issue. After your post yesterday, I ran the same test you did - coffee ring left for 8 hours on the em8000cv with cross linker. I will post pix when I can get to a computer but I found no staining, no bleaching, and only the faintest of witness marks. It was no where near the fail you recorded.
    I don't quite know what to make of that Prashun. Your finish seems to consistently test better than mine. Could a 1% difference in catalyst make that much difference? Or maybe the super long cure time? At this point what I do know is EnduroVar consistently tests better than EM-8000CV + CL.

    I will make up another test specimen of EM-8000CV with 5 or 6% CL and test it after 8 - 10 days of cure. Then we'll know if that was it.

    John

  5. #20
    Your coffee test really floored me because by now that test board should have been cured right?

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Crozet, VA
    Posts
    432
    John — How old is your EM-8000CV? Just asking in case it’s a bad batch or something.
    There is a very fine line between “hobby” and “mental illness.” - Dave Barry

  7. #22
    Pix of my experiment.

    Before
    coffee0.jpg

    Initial:
    coffee1.jpg

    After 6 hours (not 8...)

    coffee2.jpg

    Final

    coffee3.jpg

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    7,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Your coffee test really floored me because by now that test board should have been cured right?
    Yes, it had cured 8 - 10 days before I did the first round of testing. By the time I did the coffee test it had cured 20+ days.

    John

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    7,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bain View Post
    John — How old is your EM-8000CV? Just asking in case it’s a bad batch or something.
    I bought the gallon of EM-8000CV in December or January. It was not frozen when it arrived and looked and dried fine so I assume it was good. If something else was wrong I have no way of knowing.

    I'm not picking on TC but both products I have used from them has given me trouble. The EM-9300 gave me bridging around the pores of the white oak I applied it to. Sprayed great and looked great other than the holes which no amount of discussion with Jeff at TC ever resolved. He graciously refunded my money, but I still had to deal with the mess. I striped it off and switched to GF's Exterior 450 and it flowed out beautifully though it doesn't look as good. Now the EM-8000CV; it sprays great and flows out great, but the chemical durability test results for me have not been impressive.

    John

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    7,380
    I retested EM-8000CV, this time adding 5% Cross Linker. I applied 3 coats of finish two hours apart, scuff sanding with 325 grit sandpaper between coats. I let the sample cure for 8 days before testing.

    Top is hot water in a mug with 2 ml of the hot water drooled down the side to puddle around the foot of the mug. Bottom left is 0.5 ml of my Breckenridge Bourbon, sacrificed for science. Bottom right is 0.5 ml of Windex. This photo is after 1 hour:



    Then after wiping off the residual liquid and drying with a soft towel:





    24 hours later:



    The bourbon and Windex left a witness mark but did no damage this time, which is an incremental improvement over the sample with 4% added cross linker. The hot water, however, showed damage to the finish, just as it did at 4%.

    Looking at TC's Tech Data sheet for EM-8000CV I see that it says to add 5 - 10% crosslinker. The label on the bottle of Cross Linker I purchased, however, says to add 3 - 5%, which is why I originally used 4%. Welcome to the world of conflicting product information. I have no clue which is correct, but 5% is the only point of overlap, and the above results weren't what I would hope for. In complete fairness, I will repeat the test one more time at 10% cross linker.

    I had mentioned testing Osmo Oil Poly-ox. I haven't done so yet, but I got my friend to put rum on a sample and it showed no impact after 1 hour exposure. Water had no effect after 24 hours.

    Prashun, how about testing your long term cure sample with hot water?

    John

  11. #26
    I had tested previously with water but repeated it. This time I left the water puddle there for 12 hours.

    Before / After
    water 1.jpgwater 2.jpg

    Close up after, #1:

    water 3.jpg

    Close up after # 2 under raking light. I cannot see any damage. No witness lines, sheen compromise, or haze.

    Water 4.jpg

    I have gotten the haze John experienced with water, but it has always abated. I left a guitar sprayed with 8000cv less than 12 hours later in the RAIN by accident (don't ask). There were haze marks where the rain had made drops. I put it in front of the heater and the haze disappeared in a matter of minutes. Here's a picture after the rain.

    redwood.jpg
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 04-22-2021 at 10:56 AM.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    7,380
    Prashun, was the water cold or hot? I asked if you could try hot water, as in teacup hot.
    John

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    7,380
    Prashun, was the water cold or hot? I asked if you could try hot water, as in teacup hot.
    Thinking about it a little more, it would be great you could make up a new sample with 5% CL, wait 8 to 10 days, and then repeat your testing. If it shows no damage then we'll know what I got was poor product. If it looks similar to mine then we'll know the cure time is really, really long. Thanks.
    John

  14. #29
    Well I got it to fail. I put a hot teacup on the spot and let it puddle. Frankly I don’t think it was the water but the heat that caused the fail. The top layer turned hazy, then opaque, then scratched off.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Wayland, MA
    Posts
    2,605
    I tried some 8000cv on a couple of turned pieces as an experiment. Let them dry a few weeks and then tried to buff them with a Beale buffing system. The heat from the buffer melted the top layer of the finish right off, like peeling the fine skin from an onion. What a mess! It's back to oil-based poly for that application for me!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •