Options for dust collection pipe in 12” diameter

[Ryan Yeaglin]

Ok so angle flanges (Van Stones) can be added to snap lock duct, but are you saying that the duct needs to be flared at the end by pounding the Van Stone on to it? Or will the Van Stone flanges just slide right over with a little persuasion from a mallet?

In the past I have used square plywood braces along the snap lock duct to keep it from imploding. This works great too.

So let me clear this up: an angle flange is just that, a van stone flange is either formed or welded onto duct to allow the angle flange to be rotated to index the bolt holes. This would be used so on a 90 elbow for a rolled offset when you could field fit rather than measure and shop fab. One side of the 90 would have a fixed flange ( the slope of the offset) and the van stoned angle flange would be bolted to say a horizontal section, you would then tighten the 90s enough so you could still roll them and measure in between, when both sides measure the same, you'd then match mark the locations, make a section to go in between and then chalk and bolt it together for good. Sorry I'm a sheet-metal mechanic.

[Bobby Robbinett]

So let me clear this up: an angle flange is just that, a van stone flange is either formed or welded onto duct to allow the angle flange to be rotated to index the bolt holes. This would be used so on a 90 elbow for a rolled offset when you could field fit rather than measure and shop fab. One side of the 90 would have a fixed flange ( the slope of the offset) and the van stoned angle flange would be bolted to say a horizontal section, you would then tighten the 90s enough so you could still roll them and measure in between, when both sides measure the same, you'd then match mark the locations, make a section to go in between and then chalk and bolt it together for good. Sorry I'm a sheet-metal mechanic.

Ok I got it now. Thank you for taking the time to explain that. With regards to Van Stone flanges and angle flanges used on snap lock duct, what do you think that I would be looking at price wise? Could I use the flanges in your original link and weld one side to produce a Van Stone flanged connection? Could a decent sheet metal shop take standard 12” snap lock duct and press or roll the ends to produce a Van Stone flanges connection?

[Stan Coryell]

I have never put angle rings on snap lock duct. We use this connection on paper trim and abrasive dust collection systems where any laps on the inside of the duct would cause blockages or accelerated wear. It will be expensive and unnecessary for saw dust.

The reason we vanstone flanges on duct is because it's faster than welding and as mentioned above it allows fittings to be rolled off centerline. Think of the flange as sort of a flare nut and the vanstone as a flare. Typically it is used on 18 ga up to 14 ga.

We pay around $20 for a 12" Kirk & Blume flange.

You won't have any luck welding on 26 ga snaplock pipe.

Yes, a duct shop would be able to roll the vanstone edge. If they have a Pexto there isn't any doubt they can direct you where to get 12" spiral and fittings.

You can easily do it with a hammer and 3 pairs of c-clamps or 11r vise grips. Put the ring on the duct, set it back (we use 3/8"), clamp it, dress the duct out using the ring as a dolly bar. Go around a few times to get it 90*. Notching the female snaplock off at the vanstone may help with the lap, but probably isn't necessary.

The longitudinal seems needs to be sealed. Seal the vanstone only with silicone.

As I mentioned earlier, 24 ga 12" snaplock is only good for -2" You should be designing for -6".

What do you plan on using for fittings? I wouldn't try to vanstone adjustable elbows, they'll fall apart.

[Bobby Robbinett]

I have never put angle rings on snap lock duct. We use this connection on paper trim and abrasive dust collection systems where any laps on the inside of the duct would cause blockages or accelerated wear. It will be expensive and unnecessary for saw dust.

The reason we vanstone flanges on duct is because it's faster than welding and as mentioned above it allows fittings to be rolled off centerline. Think of the flange as sort of a flare nut and the vanstone as a flare. Typically it is used on 18 ga up to 14 ga.

We pay around $20 for a 12" Kirk & Blume flange.

You won't have any luck welding on 26 ga snaplock pipe.

Yes, a duct shop would be able to roll the vanstone edge. If they have a Pexto there isn't any doubt they can direct you where to get 12" spiral and fittings.

You can easily do it with a hammer and 3 pairs of c-clamps or 11r vise grips. Put the ring on the duct, set it back (we use 3/8"), clamp it, dress the duct out using the ring as a dolly bar. Go around a few times to get it 90*. Notching the female snaplock off at the vanstone may help with the lap, but probably isn't necessary.

The longitudinal seems needs to be sealed. Seal the vanstone only with silicone.

As I mentioned earlier, 24 ga 12" snaplock is only good for -2" You should be designing for -6".

What do you plan on using for fittings? I wouldn't try to vanstone adjustable elbows, they'll fall apart.

For fittings I am using standard HVAC fittings in the heaviest gauge that is sold locally. (I believe 28g) Basically my reasoning for asking about this is that I was trying to figure out a way to use 28g snap lock pipe and fittings but have the crimped ends cut off and either using a flange or a slip on type coupler at the connection points to reduce the messy inside connection that frequently gets clogged and doesn’t work as well as a smooth connection that you get with spiral pipe or PVC pipe.

So if I take my 28g snap lock duct and fittings to a sheet metal shop, they should be able to cut the crimped end off and roll me a Van Stone flange on one end of each piece and then I could order some loose 12” flanges to meet up on the other matting piece? Then I could screw the loose flange to the edge of the duct and then connect both pieces together using sheet metal screws and silicone?

[Bill Dufour]

PVC should have a ground wire but it can stay outside. No need to be inside the dust area. PVC can be heated and formed to make a bell end that fits into your existing fittings. You can even make your own tee fitting using wood cutting tools. I recommend a sawsall or bandsaw.
Bill D

[Bill Dufour]

Rain for Rent had some issues with their aluminum pipe and sold a lot of it off from rental stocks. Might see what irrigation dealers have.
Bill D

[Ryan Yeaglin]

I have never put angle rings on snap lock duct. We use this connection on paper trim and abrasive dust collection systems where any laps on the inside of the duct would cause blockages or accelerated wear. It will be expensive and unnecessary for saw dust.

The reason we vanstone flanges on duct is because it's faster than welding and as mentioned above it allows fittings to be rolled off centerline. Think of the flange as sort of a flare nut and the vanstone as a flare. Typically it is used on 18 ga up to 14 ga.

We pay around $20 for a 12" Kirk & Blume flange.

You won't have any luck welding on 26 ga snaplock pipe.

Yes, a duct shop would be able to roll the vanstone edge. If they have a Pexto there isn't any doubt they can direct you where to get 12" spiral and fittings.

You can easily do it with a hammer and 3 pairs of c-clamps or 11r vise grips. Put the ring on the duct, set it back (we use 3/8"), clamp it, dress the duct out using the ring as a dolly bar. Go around a few times to get it 90*. Notching the female snaplock off at the vanstone may help with the lap, but probably isn't necessary.

The longitudinal seems needs to be sealed. Seal the vanstone only with silicone.

As I mentioned earlier, 24 ga 12" snaplock is only good for -2" You should be designing for -6".

What do you plan on using for fittings? I wouldn't try to vanstone adjustable elbows, they'll fall apart.

This man here is a fellow tin knocker!

As to the OP, As Stan and I have both posted, you have to quit on the idea of using snap lock for your system, it will produce too much suction (measured in inches of water) and crush that light gauge stuff. Snap lock is meant for an HVAC system that is forced air not suction, two different animals. My suggestion would be spiral or welded 18ga duct made by a fab/ duct shop.

[Bobby Robbinett]

I have never put angle rings on snap lock duct. We use this connection on paper trim and abrasive dust collection systems where any laps on the inside of the duct would cause blockages or accelerated wear. It will be expensive and unnecessary for saw dust.

The reason we vanstone flanges on duct is because it's faster than welding and as mentioned above it allows fittings to be rolled off centerline. Think of the flange as sort of a flare nut and the vanstone as a flare. Typically it is used on 18 ga up to 14 ga.

We pay around $20 for a 12" Kirk & Blume flange.

You won't have any luck welding on 26 ga snaplock pipe.

Yes, a duct shop would be able to roll the vanstone edge. If they have a Pexto there isn't any doubt they can direct you where to get 12" spiral and fittings.

You can easily do it with a hammer and 3 pairs of c-clamps or 11r vise grips. Put the ring on the duct, set it back (we use 3/8"), clamp it, dress the duct out using the ring as a dolly bar. Go around a few times to get it 90*. Notching the female snaplock off at the vanstone may help with the lap, but probably isn't necessary.

The longitudinal seems needs to be sealed. Seal the vanstone only with silicone.

As I mentioned earlier, 24 ga 12" snaplock is only good for -2" You should be designing for -6".

What do you plan on using for fittings? I wouldn't try to vanstone adjustable elbows, they'll fall apart.

This man here is a fellow tin knocker!

As to the OP, As Stan and I have both posted, you have to quit on the idea of using snap lock for your system, it will produce too much suction (measured in inches of water) and crush that light gauge stuff. Snap lock is meant for an HVAC system that is forced air not suction, two different animals. My suggestion would be spiral or welded 18ga duct made by a fab/ duct shop.

I will take your and Ryan’s advice and go ahead with either spiral pipe or pvc.

As I mentioned earlier I can get 12” pvc locally for under $154 per 22ft stick. I did get a quote on 18 pieces of 12” x 5ft spiral pipe for $1,105 delivered to my shop. At first glance the 12” pvc would appear most economical but my HVAC fittings would not fit inside or outside with a couplet for both sides of each fitting and the 12” couplers are $38 each. I suppose that I could get a decent heat gun and get the crimped ends to fit inside the 12” pvc. I could attempt to heat up the pvc enough to also fit the male ends of my fittings too thus requiring no couplers. I would need over 20 couplers otherwise. Well, each pipe would have a coupler end built in so I would save a few there. Might just buy the pvc tomorrow and start trying to find a heat gun.

I will need some advice on my trunk line and drops. Although I should probably make another thread on that. I need to make a good drawing of my layout and proposed dust collection and machine setup. I have been trying to read up as good as I can on the science to this stuff but it feels overwhelming and confusing to be honest.

[Kevin Jenness]

"I have been trying to read up as good as I can on the science to this stuff but it feels overwhelming and confusing to be honest."

I have used this guide in the past- you may find it helpful. https://airhand.com/designing/ This book is also useful. https://www.amazon.com/Woodshop-Dust...nkCode=df0&hva

Start with the machine airflow requirements, work out the branch and main duct sizes and static pressure losses and then decide on what you need for a blower. Since you plan to use only one machine at a time you may well be able to use a smaller blower and thus save money on the ductwork. 10 hp seems high for the scenario you describe.

Personally I would bite the bullet and go with spiral pipe and metal fittings. You will save a good deal of labor and aggravation in trying to mate plastic and metal parts and grounding will be assured.

Be aware that large radius ells and wyes are considerably more efficient than standard hvac fittings- using them can cut your resistance and possibly allow for using a smaller fan.

[Mike Heidrick]

Your mainline will neck down as it gets moves towards the end of the line and drops. Prob to 10" then 8". It does not stay 12" all 90'.

I use a a 10hp cyclone with 12" inlet and Nordfab ductwork. Shed is 40X64 and have a mainline up 6 to in rafters run the full 64. I drop to 10" at like ~25' when I Y drop to my jointer planer cluster, take 10" have a 6" off shoot to router station and 10" to middle and have a y to the north that is 10" that goes 25 and then necks to 8' and drops two different 8" drops fopr sanders and bandsaws, and back at mailine 10" continuing west to like 50' getting a 8" drup to tablesaw/and overhead collection then I neck off mainline to 8" at 50' that drops to a shaper.

Point is you dont want 90' of 12". Id do some math on your needs based on tools and the run characteristics etc. read up on air handlings ductwork sizing guide.

Many people who run PVC run complete 8" or 6" mainlines cause they do not have pvc options like metal ductwork will offer you. You want the best setup to support your layout and what is best when moving chips from machines and keeping them in flight.

[Chuck Saunders]

I am somewhat lost on why you are using a 10hp 12" duct system where you say you will only use one machine at a time which suggests that you will use blast gates. If you're not using blast gates then it makes sense though 17 drops sounds like more than the system can support. If you are using blast gates then the 12" duct won't have the airflow to keep the chips in suspension when fed by one 4-6" drop. And as Mike points out you are only running 12" to your first branch. All of my fine wisdom is from no specifics, no drawings and no knowledge of your workspace. Please keep that in mind.
Chuck