Laguna IQ questions for existing owners?

[Wade Shepherd]

Hi guys, I just bought a new IQ. I was quoted a machine that had 300IPM rapids and nema 34 motors. What I'm learning though is if you try to push it just over 1/3rd those speeds it will lock up and miss steps.

My question is what are you guys running your rapids at?

I was told by support the machine has to run under 100 and closer to 60-70IPM or it will lock up and miss steps. This is ridiculous which is a big joke to me based on what I was quoted. So far in my experience i had the rapids set to 3500 or faster the z axis locks up when it rapids up and loses tons of steps then plunges deep into my part and ruins it. I've ruined a couple parts thus far and had to slow the rapids to 2540 or 100 inches. This is pathetic for a nema 34 machine.

I have a old romaxx wd-1 on nema 23 motors that can do 160IPM rapids. Also I have a original CNC router parts kit that i built that can smoke the IQ as well with nema 23 motors. What is the bottleneck with this thing? The control? I can't comprehend why it's performance is so poor? I'm really starting to regret keeping this machine and really wish I spent that money on a CNC router parts kit again.

[Bill George]

It would help to know the size and model number of your machine? Chances are its pretty large and you have a heavy spindle motor. That all adds up to more weight even for NEMA 34 motors. With my now gone 4x4 machine not Laguna, with spindle I could run 300 - 400 or so on rapids. Cutting speeds varying on the material and depth of cut. So are you confusing speeds in mm vs inches?

Just checked their website, no spec's on motors or speeds, that's unusual on the LQ models anyway.

[David Falkner]

I have NEMA 34 motors and have rapids limited to 600 ipm for X and Y and 300 ipm for Z. I could set them to go much faster but my machine is 2 x 4 so no need to go faster than that.

David

[Jim Becker]

My 4x4 (not Laguna) uses 900 oz NEMA 34 steppers and has rapids in the 500-600ips range. I can cut reliably at 200-300ipm. Keep in mind that there are multiple "strengths" of NEMA 34 motors.

[Alex Zeller]

I don't understand why people put so much stock in "NEMA" when it comes to stepper motors. That's just the physical size of the mount. It would be like saying I have 18" wheels on my car. That information alone kind of means you have a larger car but not enough details. It's a fancy term that generally means you may have more power than the next size down.

I don't have direct knowledge of CNC routers yet but on the tools I work on for a living there's two types of systems. Do you know what kind of feedback system Laguna uses? Is the output from the encoders sent to the controller or the driver. If to the controller it should realize that you are loosing steps and compensate (most likely by slowing down when needed). If it can't compensate enough it'll cause faults. Where as the driver can only try to repeat the pulse to the motor to compensate.

[richard newman]

When you say 'quoted", do you have that on paper or email? Or was it on the website somewhere?

If it's documented, I would hold Laguna's feet to the fire, insist they make it right or take it back at their cost. Maybe lawyer, court, whatever it takes. But that kind of mis-representation of a machine at that cost is reprehensible and not to be forgiven.

[Bill George]

I don't understand why people put so much stock in "NEMA" when it comes to stepper motors. That's just the physical size of the mount. It would be like saying I have 18" wheels on my car. That information alone kind of means you have a larger car but not enough details. It's a fancy term that generally means you may have more power than the next size down.

I don't have direct knowledge of CNC routers yet but on the tools I work on for a living there's two types of systems. Do you know what kind of feedback system Laguna uses? Is the output from the encoders sent to the controller or the driver. If to the controller it should realize that you are loosing steps and compensate (most likely by slowing down when needed). If it can't compensate enough it'll cause faults. Where as the driver can only try to repeat the pulse to the motor to compensate.

Stepper motors do not do feed back to the controller. NEMA 34 is larger than 23 not only the physical size but the rated outputs, and yes that can vary within those size perimeters. NEMA 34 are generally used on larger machines needing more power to move the weight or increase speeds and feeds. A quick search online will give you that info. My 4x4 Saturn 2 CNC router used 34's as I stated above as it was heavy.

[Wade Shepherd]

It's a Laguna IQ so it's a 2x3' machine. Yes I have it quoted in an e-mail about the 300 IPM rapids. They offered to take the machine back. But I decided to take a partial refund on the machine instead. It's decent machine but I can't understand why the Z axis hangs given the motors it's using. Like you guys have said with a motor like that it makes no sense why it hangs on me. I'll have to take the covers off one day and give it a good look over. For now it's 100 ipm or slower on feeds and rapids Oh well it does seem very accurate at least.

[richard newman]

. They offered to take the machine back. But I decided to take a partial refund on the machine instead

I misunderstood, thought they were stiffing you. Glad to hear they took good care of you.

[Bill George]

It's a Laguna IQ so it's a 2x3' machine. Yes I have it quoted in an e-mail about the 300 IPM rapids. They offered to take the machine back. But I decided to take a partial refund on the machine instead. It's decent machine but I can't understand why the Z axis hangs given the motors it's using. Like you guys have said with a motor like that it makes no sense why it hangs on me. I'll have to take the covers off one day and give it a good look over. For now it's 100 ipm or slower on feeds and rapids Oh well it does seem very accurate at least.

So now your stuck with a machine that is slower than the Chinese WorkBee kit I built with NEMA 23 HD motors, granted I am using much better stepper controllers and controller than what came with the machine Kit. Mine is a screw machine drive, same as yours.

[bobby milam]

Usually when they list max rapid speeds, they are talking about the axis moving freely and not cutting. The good news is that it is just a fairly common Chinese machine so you can change the motors or other parts fairly cheaply and get it to do what you want. Back when I had a Shark, it would do better speeds than what you are claiming without losing steps and that was with some pretty poor nema 23 motors.

[Wade Shepherd]

Thanks, I do have a older standard CNC routers parts 4x4 machine I built a long time ago. It's the one that uses cold rolled steel and skateboard bearings for motion. It's been a solid machine and easy to repair. It's running nema 23 motors and can do 400IPM rapids. I just put homing switches on it so it's pretty reliable. I kind of just wanted the laguna to get better deal on inlays and such. It does do a better job on that. It's motion is superior to that old cnc router parts machine but that is to be expected. I think it will be fine for what I want. But if any of you run this same machine please post what you run your rapids at? I'm curious if your limited to around 100IPM as well.