Window & door screen build: Domino, pocket screws, or M &T joints?

[keith wootton]

i made my screen door from milled down 2x6 redwood deck material 1" thick. mortise and tennon pinned with redwood dowels. self closing hinges that slam it shut just like old time sceeen doors. has held up and looks good after ten years. i did splurge on bronze screen material. that took a while to get and was pricey, but will outlast me.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Mortise and loose tenon done using plunge router. Hundreds of videos on you tube for mortising using a plunge router. 5/4 stock for screen door frame. Rabbet on outside of door, screen stapled in and covered with screen molding.

[Jeff Bartley]

i made my screen door from milled down 2x6 redwood deck material 1" thick. mortise and tennon pinned with redwood dowels. self closing hinges that slam it shut just like old time sceeen doors. has held up and looks good after ten years. i did splurge on bronze screen material. that took a while to get and was pricey, but will outlast me.

I love that bronze screen!

[Mel Fulks]

In the situation you described ; I would staple up nylon netting.

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian, do you find the Domino to be useful in any of your work?

I don’t, but if you like locating table tops for glue up, it’s useful there. Floating tenon joinery is fine I just don’t prefer it and don’t find it most effective.

[Richard Coers]

Pocket screws are not structural joinery.

[johnny means]

The goal to efficiency is more than just cutting the joints. It is cutting them so that they locate the parts perfectly each time. This minimizes finishing work. So while a domino and a freestanding mortiser are similarly fast, I know that the joints I cut with freestanding machinery are well positioned and perfectly square. I can assemble the frames without measuring and they are spot on. I usually measure one per batch.

For dominos their is slack in the joint and the parts don’t self align as well as precision cut joinery.

I cut a typical window sized mortise with the hollow chisel in approx 15 seconds including clamping. Or I cut it with the Maka in less time but I assume his machine is not a Maka.

I assume you've never used a Domino. It's unforgiving in it's precision. As far as slack, I once dry fitted a workbench with Dominoes, got busy with contracts, and ended up working on that dry fitted bench for years before banging it apart to move it to it's new owner's shop.

[Brian Holcombe]

Again, it seems we can’t compare apples to apples in this conversation, we’re talking about windows and I make shoji. I have taken apart domino joints, there is a tolerance to the fit that I can eliminate with traditional joinery using traditional machines and in doing so I remove the majority of the work of touching up the faces of the parts, or sides after that.

It would seem these machines are pitched in forums as the ideal solution to all joinery problems, yet I don’t see them as such.

Traditional joinery can be made more ideal to suit various purposes, it can be made to self locate and self square with extreme precision and it can be made very quickly given some ingenuity. Those things combine to form ‘efficient’ in my book.

[Mike Henderson]

While I don't want to push you to spend money, the Domino has been perhaps the best portable machine I've ever purchased. I use it on almost all of my projects. For small things, the 4mm Dominoes work very well. It makes a strong accurate joint and it does it quickly.

I think if you get one you'll find it useful on many of your projects. It's a joy to use.

Mike

[Aaron Rosenthal]

Wow! Love the discussion.
For the door, I agree, no such thing as pocket screws, I learned THAT lesson years ago. No, it's the multiple window screens I'm thinking of.
It looks like M&T are going to be the way. Tune up the mortiser, boys, here we go!

[Prashun Patel]

I have noticed with Domino joints that while they are strong, I can break them apart with less effort than traditional mortise and tenon. I am not talking about pulling them out. I mean torquing. For this reason I do not use them on chairs or anything that gets those kinds of forces.

On a door or window I would have confidence in it especially if I had to make a bunch. Domino is nice on large pieces like a door where I might find it easier to take the tool to the wood.

[Thomas Wilson]

Back in the 60’s, without the option of a domino tool or a mortising machine, my father used half lap joints on Doug fir to make screens on the same type of single pane windows as you describe. He too did it to fulfill a wish of my mother. The screens held up well and he had some regret to throw them away some 10 or 15 years later when all the windows were replaced with double pane windows. A few of the frames were covered with plastic and used to cover cold frames to start plants. The half lap joints held up just fine. Modern Titebond III glue would be even better. I would be hard pressed to pick a better joint.

[John TenEyck]

Back in the 60’s, without the option of a domino tool or a mortising machine, my father used half lap joints on Doug fir to make screens on the same type of single pane windows as you describe. He too did it to fulfill a wish of my mother. The screens held up well and he had some regret to throw them away some 10 or 15 years later when all the windows were replaced with double pane windows. A few of the frames were covered with plastic and used to cover cold frames to start plants. The half lap joints held up just fine. Modern Titebond III glue would be even better. I would be hard pressed to pick a better joint.

IIRC, a FWW article on joint strength showed half laps to have higher breaking strength than traditional M&T. Why? Because the faces have larger cross section than on a M&T joint. Of course, when a half lap joint fails the two pieces come apart while with a M&T it often still stays together although structurally it's history. The point is there are several ways to make joints that are plenty strong enough for the intended application. Even the most basic outfitted shop can make serviceable joints for these doors. Seriously, a handsaw, drill and chisel are all that is needed to make several of the joints discussed.

John

[Jon Endres]

For window screens I would definitely prefer to use half-laps or bridle joints. Very strong if done right. I've built some big cabinet doors with nothing but stub tenons and good glue and they hold up to a lot of use, so M&T should be great on the doors.

[Brian Holcombe]

I use bridle joints or mortise and tenon, for this work but no way I’d use half laps. They may have a high breaking strength but this is an outdoor use. You want that joint as sealed as possible so for this, personally I would use mortise and tenon.