Oneida 5hp gorilla pro smart boost pulling 30-31 amps

[Ryan McGinn]

Hi All - Hoping someone can help me out here.. I recently purchased a new 5hp oneida gorilla DC for my 40x30 shop. I ran a 7" main trunk to 6" down drops throughout most of the system. Airflow is very good overall. I estimate I'm likely < 10" sp on my longest run. Out of curiosity and because I tend to be too detailed, I decided to test the amperage being drawn at the breaker when the collector is running. I found that the dust collector pretty much runs at 30-31 amps at almost all times. The lowest I was able to get it while still pulling air through a 4" port only was to 29-30amps.. Am I crazy, or should this only be pulling 18-23 amps per the listed rating? Why am I seeing something so much higher? From what I can tell everything is wired correctly.. The manual suggests validating that the motor is spinning in the right direction.. but I can't imagine it wouldnt be for any reason since its brand new from the factory.

I was really expecting to not have any problems running the DC with 2-3 ports open at a time (table saw, jointer, planer) while still getting adequate air flow, and from what I can tell, this machine is more than capable. The electrical situation here has me a bit concerned though... Doesn't make me feel good that this is pulling 30-31 amps through a 30A breaker.. Breaker has not tripped yet.

I was really hoping to be up and running with the shop tomorrow to make some serious progress on some projects. Hoping someone has experienced this before and maybe has some suggestions so I don't need to wait until I can get tech support on the phone monday.. Thanks!

EDIT: crazy - didnt think this was my first post on here.. apparently I've been lurking since 2016!!! lol

[David L Morse]

That unit uses a VFD with a single phase input. The input rectifiers can cause a very high peak to average ratio of the input current. This causes difficulties for most ammeters. If yours does not claim true RMS measurement I wouldn't trust it's reading.

Also, the "Smart" part makes the current less dependent on duct restriction. The whole point of the VFD control is to use the full capability of the motor over a range of operating conditions. So, yes, it will try to draw full current even with a small port.

[Larry Frank]

Wow...
That is high. My 5 hp Gorilla which is a couple years old is 7-12 amps when running. It is not the Smart version.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, as David indicated, on the input side it’s a rectifier not a motor so a true RMS ammeter will be required for accurate readings.

Regards, Rod

[Ryan McGinn]

Hi, as David indicated, on the input side it’s a rectifier not a motor so a true RMS ammeter will be required for accurate readings.

Regards, Rod

Thanks Rod -

I actually went and picked up a meter that shows True RMS and it made the result worse. Instead of showing 30-31 like it did with the non True RMS meter, it shows 37-38. This is with one gate open with a 6" port. The only way I can get the reading below 30 amps (29.57) is with all gates closed.. Just doesnt seem right. To confirm, I'm testing on either of the hot leads at the breaker in the sub panel. This was a $70 tester, so I'd hope its accurate for the use..

http://www.southwiretools.com/tools/tools/21550T

Curious on thoughts Thanks!

[Ron Selzer]

Interested in where this thread ends up at as to what is happening, Some thoughts I have so far.
personally I don't trust what you are reading with the meters you have used so far.
Need to get a good Fluke meter on the wires to see what it actually is doing.
Any centrifugal fan will use less amps as the inlet air is restricted more and more
VFD's as used in HVAC always reduce amps until 100% speed and full airflow, not familiar with this application and will follow along to learn more.
Hard to believe your circuit breaker is holding on at 37-38 amps for very long.
Ron

[Mike Henderson]

30 amps at 240 volts is about 7200 VA. Assuming 1000Watts per HP (taking efficiency into account) that would give you 7.2HP. I think you have a measurement problem.

I don't know what size breaker you have but for a 5HP motor, a 30 amp breaker is normal. If that breaker is not tripping, it would be another sign that you have a measurement problem.

Even if you had some really odd power factor problem you'd still trip the breaker.

Mike

[Ryan McGinn]

Totally agree- Thats whats' getting me here too is that I don't understand how it would be possible for the motor to pull that many amps without the breaker popping. Is it there any configuration that the wiring to the motor could possibly have that could end in this result of amperage draw being 2x the listed rate?

Interested in where this thread ends up at as to what is happening, Some thoughts I have so far.
personally I don't trust what you are reading with the meters you have used so far.
Need to get a good Fluke meter on the wires to see what it actually is doing.
Any centrifugal fan will use less amps as the inlet air is restricted more and more
VFD's as used in HVAC always reduce amps until 100% speed and full airflow, not familiar with this application and will follow along to learn more.
Hard to believe your circuit breaker is holding on at 37-38 amps for very long.
Ron

[Ryan McGinn]

I'm definitely not claiming to be an expert with a meter . However, like the rest of us on this forum I love learning. If you were going to measure the amp draw on a circuit though, is there a way to minimize measurement error? I uploaded a video (below).

https://i.imgur.com/x1kYvaL.mp4

30 amps at 240 volts is about 7200 VA. Assuming 1000Watts per HP (taking efficiency into account) that would give you 7.2HP. I think you have a measurement problem.

I don't know what size breaker you have but for a 5HP motor, a 30 amp breaker is normal. If that breaker is not tripping, it would be another sign that you have a measurement problem.

Even if you had some really odd power factor problem you'd still trip the breaker.

Mike

[Malcolm McLeod]

My baby step 1 - What is the supplied voltage?

If you have below-spec voltage, the Smart(VFD)/motor will pulls more amps to make up the power 'shortage'. Same as a non-Smart motor.

Even if this is the case, it would take ~160VAC to pull 31A at 5kW (using Mr. Henderson's formula), so a bit far-fetched. And it still doesn't explain why the breaker is not in open revolt. ...Mystery wrapped in enigma.

[Ryan McGinn]

My baby step 1 - What is the supplied voltage?

If you have below-spec voltage, the Smart(VFD)/motor will pulls more amps to make up the power 'shortage'. Same as a non-Smart motor.

Even if this is the case, it would take ~160VAC to pull 31A at 5kW (using Mr. Henderson's formula), so a bit far-fetched. And it still doesn't explain why the breaker is not in open revolt. ...Mystery wrapped in enigma.

Definitely a mystery as I see ~242 volts across phases with no real drop when motor starts or is running. Super strange!

[Chris Fairbanks]

Hi All - Hoping someone can help me out here.. I recently purchased a new 5hp oneida gorilla DC for my 40x30 shop. I ran a 7" main trunk to 6" down drops throughout most of the system. Airflow is very good overall. I estimate I'm likely < 10" sp on my longest run. Out of curiosity and because I tend to be too detailed, I decided to test the amperage being drawn at the breaker when the collector is running. I found that the dust collector pretty much runs at 30-31 amps at almost all times. The lowest I was able to get it while still pulling air through a 4" port only was to 29-30amps.. Am I crazy, or should this only be pulling 18-23 amps per the listed rating? Why am I seeing something so much higher? From what I can tell everything is wired correctly.. The manual suggests validating that the motor is spinning in the right direction.. but I can't imagine it wouldnt be for any reason since its brand new from the factory.

I was really expecting to not have any problems running the DC with 2-3 ports open at a time (table saw, jointer, planer) while still getting adequate air flow, and from what I can tell, this machine is more than capable. The electrical situation here has me a bit concerned though... Doesn't make me feel good that this is pulling 30-31 amps through a 30A breaker.. Breaker has not tripped yet.

I was really hoping to be up and running with the shop tomorrow to make some serious progress on some projects. Hoping someone has experienced this before and maybe has some suggestions so I don't need to wait until I can get tech support on the phone monday.. Thanks!

EDIT: crazy - didnt think this was my first post on here.. apparently I've been lurking since 2016!!! lol

Ryan are you clamping your amp meter around one or both hot wires? For a 220/240 circuit that does not use a neutral all you need to do is measure one of the hot leads. I thought if you did both it canceled each other out and you would see zero but maybe you are seeing 2x your usage. Let us know.

[Curt Harms]

I'm certainly no expert in these things but if a motor that should draw around 20 amps is really drawing 30 amps wouldn't it get pretty warm pretty quick, like over a few minutes?

[Frank Pratt]

I'm certainly no expert in these things but if a motor that should draw around 20 amps is really drawing 30 amps wouldn't it get pretty warm pretty quick, like over a few minutes?

That's right. A 50% overload will trip out the motor in just a few minutes. My bet is that there is an issue with the meter.

[Ryan McGinn]

That's right. A 50% overload will trip out the motor in just a few minutes. My bet is that there is an issue with the meter.

I've noticed the motor fan runs for 20-30 seconds to cool down the motor after only running the motor for a few minutes. I have not run the motor very long yet as I only recently got power run to it and ductwork installed. Still getting power to other dust producing tools, but I decided to take a few measurements to make sure everything is working properly.

Another poster asked if I was measuring over one or both hot wires in the box. This measurement is only across one of the hot wires. Additionally, since this was the only live circuit in the sub panel, I also measured over one of the hot leads coming into the box. Same reading.

Additionally, I've measured with 2 different meters at this point, a True RMS meter (gave me a reading of 38-39amps) and a non True RMS meter (gave reading of 30-31). I'd be surprised if both meters are significantly off here, also from what i've read, sometimes you can get readings that are 10-30% higher with a True RMS meter vs an averaging meter due to waveform from VFD motors. So that leads me to believe that the readings are in line with one another.

I also logged a ticket with Oneida, so we'll see what they suggest.