Workshop Considerations When Moving

[Leo Butler]

My wife and I are pondering where we'd like to move in the next few years, and we're currently engaging in what we're calling "flights of fancy" as we look around. Other than some good friends around here (not to discount the value of friends, mind you) we're not strongly tied to the San Francisco Bay Area any longer and we'd like to experience something new after being in our first home for 25 years. You won't be surprised to hear that one of my requirements for any house we purchase is a viable workshop that has enough space, or a proper spot where I can have one built.

We're presently considering a move to north Baltimore, MD because my wife's sister and her family live there and they have young kids whose lives we'd like to be a bigger part of. So of course we're poking around on Zillow and looking at places not too far away from them. What I've noticed is that there are few homes for sale that have the kind of space I'm looking for unless I can use a basement or buy a massive house. I'm mostly discounting use of a garage as I want at least one car to be able to be parked inside, and I really don't want to use half of a two-car garage yet again unless it's deeper than normal. I'm amenable to the basement idea, but I suspect there are considerations I will not be aware of. Off the top of my head I'm thinking it should have 8' ceilings, direct access to the yard ideally with a wide opening, not be below a main living space (so below bedrooms okay, kitchen/office/living room not so much), not be tied into central heat/air.

I've seen homes 15/20 minutes away from them that have appropriate spaces, but the houses are often McMansions, 4500 sq. ft. and above. We don't want that big of a place. In and around the area they live (Towson, MD) the houses often have one-car garages and/or basements that I don't think would be suitable, and not enough land to add a 500-600 sq. ft building. Bigger than I likely need, but I'm assuming it will be used for other purposes besides my shop. One of the worst things about our present house is the lack of storage space so I'm currently of the "more is better" mindset.

So what I'd like to ask is, what sorts of spaces should I be open to? Eventually I'll need to tell a real estate agent what to look for, and getting that wrong could easily keep a good place from being presented to us. We're planning to go spend a couple of weeks out there later this year so we can visit the in-laws and get a feel for the area, but that's probably too soon to engage with a realtor.

[Jim Matthews]

My shop is in a basement with 8 feet of clearance.

If the electrical service panel has capacity, basements are easily converted. Just have a plan for flooding, don't keep things under the outgoing sewer lines or directly under a window.

[ChrisA Edwards]

We formally retired 3 years ago and decided to move from Dallas, TX, where the last corporate job had us.

We have lived in several places, mostly along the east coast, Orange CT, Kinnelon, NJ, Gaithersbug, MD and Orlando FL. We ventured to Nashville, TN before the final stint to boost the 401k in Dallas, TX.

Quite a lot of our decision was based on the taxes, mostly property taxes, and the cost of real estate, which is why we settled back on the outskirts of Nashville, TN.

In smaller towns and in the rural areas surrounding these towns, you'll find the property prices are lower and have more land associated with them and you don't have to travel too far to urban convenience.

Once we had decided on the general location, in our case a 35 mile radius of Nashville, we settled on the budget for our house and then narrowed the property search to those that had out buildings that would become my workshop and then properties that had enough land to possibly build a workshop. I found about 4 properties that met our criteria.

I liked MD and have lots of friends there, it's a nice State.

One of the things we have noticed, having lived in many different locations, middle class America, general convenience to shopping and entertainment, is pretty much the same throughout as long as you are within about 30 miles of a nice size city.

[Wes Billups]

My wife and I are a few years away from doing what you are proposing but having moved my shop four times in the last 25 years, don't discount looking at homes that could have an addition put on the garage for a shop. While my current shop is detached from the house there are a lot of advantages to having it part of the main house structure. Obviously utilities is the biggest but don't discount convenience, depending on how you work. There are times in the evening I may forego running to the shop for a few minutes because it's raining, too cold, or just don't want to traverse the yard in the dark. If it was connected to the house, my reasons for not going out there would be mute. Minisplit systems allow for separate HVAC from the main house so you don't have to worry about dust everywhere.

Good luck on your search. I know our next house (retirement location) will most likely be one with a walkout basement or room to make the garage double deep.

[Paul F Franklin]

I suggest you familiarize yourself with the local codes in the areas you are interested in to make sure any plans you have to build a shop or add on or extend the house will be permitted. It used to be that once you got outside a city there weren't many code impediments, but that has changed and many suburban areas are very restrictive.

I have always had basement shops and while I love the convenience, it does complicate moving machinery and materials (and finished projects) in and out, and ceiling height is often an issue unless the house is fairly new and was built with extra basement height. I added an outside access with stairway with a bilco type door and it's serviceable for moving stuff in and out, but a walkout with driveway access would be way better. Of course a ground level shop, either attached or free standing has many advantages, but I sure wouldn't want to have to slog through the rain or snow to get to my shop.

[Alan Rutherford]

There's a huge difference between 8 feet and another 6 or 12 inches when you have to move things around, especially with lights hanging down.

I grew up in the area you're talking about. Winters and summers are both unlike the Bay Area. Real ice and snow in the winter. Real heat with humidity in the summer. You'll want a space you can heat and cool.

[Jim Becker]

Leo, it's probably good that you're not in a hurry. As someone smack in the middle of preparing for our "downsize" property, we're living the insanity right now. Finding a property here in the northeast that's in the square foot range I suspect you're interested in plus enough space for a separate shop if a usable extra large garage or a walkout isn't available is a real tough row to hoe at present. These smaller homes are now targets as "first home" which is why the prices are getting bid up and you have to be able to act within hours of discovering something. We had our successful offer (after four failures) in three hours after we did our walk though and had to throw major money and other concessions in to get the win. That what it's like now in this seller's market. Hopefully, things will calm down a little when you are ready to get serious, but I suspect even a year or two from how, it will still require you to be serious and ready to commit quickly to get what you want.

You may also need to press farther out to get enough space for a separate shop due to enforced land coverage ratios for both buildings and impermeable cover. The property we are in process of buying has limits of 20% and 25% respectively for these restrictions and then you add setbacks to the mix. To get the space on the property, you may need to compromise on the space (higher) in the house, too. But you never know...

BTW, Paul is correct about researching the local jurisdictions' zoning requirements before you fall in love with any property. Add flood plane to that as well as any other special things. We needed not only the space for a shop, but also the ability for Professor Dr. SWMBO to be able to take her honeybees with her to the new property. You cannot depend upon a Realtor to do all of this work for you...there's not enough time for that.

[Leo Butler]

Great info here - much appreciated!

Just have a plan for flooding, don't keep things under the outgoing sewer lines or directly under a window.

Ah... flooding and water encroachment. I'll have to learn more about that. Are battery backed-up sump pumps common? And is that even considered flood protection?

Once we had decided on the general location, in our case a 35 mile radius of Nashville, we settled on the budget for our house and then narrowed the property search to those that had out buildings that would become my workshop and then properties that had enough land to possibly build a workshop.

I suspect my wife will want to be closer to her sister than places where enough land is the norm rather than the exception. We'll see how that pans out.

don't discount looking at homes that could have an addition put on the garage for a shop.

Strangely enough I had not considered that. Thanks for mentioning it.

I suggest you familiarize yourself with the local codes in the areas you are interested in

Definitely, and I'm thinking that in town especially, I'll go in with the assumption I won't be able to add a separate building unless I can confirm otherwise.

There's a huge difference between 8 feet and another 6 or 12 inches when you have to move things around, especially with lights hanging down.

I grew up in the area you're talking about. Winters and summers are both unlike the Bay Area. Real ice and snow in the winter. Real heat with humidity in the summer. You'll want a space you can heat and cool.

I was assuming that 8' would be a compromise but I'm going into this assuming I'll need to make one or more compromises unless we're a ways out of town. And the heating/cooling issue makes me wonder about what I need to budget for just that aspect. I'll ask some of my east coast in-laws about their utilities. CA prices are very high but all we do currently is heat during the fall and winter. I don't know what to expect elsewhere.

Finding a property here in the northeast that's in the square foot range I suspect you're interested in plus enough space for a separate shop if a usable extra large garage or a walkout isn't available is a real tough row to hoe at present.

I'm not surprised to hear you say that. I noticed early on that over half the homes for sale on Zillow in the area I'm looking at have pink dots at at any given time, which indicates they're under contract already. Haven't ever seen that before while poking around.

To get the space on the property, you may need to compromise on the space (higher) in the house, too. But you never know...

I think we can probably handle that, as long as the house isn't too "upper crust". I have a few friends that have rooms in their homes that look like they've been staged and they never sit there unless people come over. That ain't me by a long shot and I don't want a house that's begging to be gussied up like that. But I don't want a basic rancher, either. I suspect I'm going to be one of those clients the realtors just love.

[Doug Dawson]

I would never consider a property without at least the option of a shop at ground level. Unless you only build tiny stuff (and even then,) it’s just too difficult to manage getting things in or out of the space. A 3-car garage at a minimum; a dedicated workspace at least that size would be a great alternative.

I also wouldn’t consider a property with an HOA. They are a personification of the banality of evil.

[Leo Butler]

I would never consider a property without at least the option of a shop at ground level. Unless you only build tiny stuff (and even then,) it’s just too difficult to manage getting things in or out of the space. A 3-car garage at a minimum; a dedicated workspace at least that size would be a great alternative.

I think I could be happy with a space the size of a 2-car garage, as long as there was adequate blank wall space that was mine to use as I wish. Our current garage is slightly smaller than that, and the tall wall space is used up by the water heater, garage shelves, crawlspace access door, and a fairly good sized walk-in wine cellar which I can't blame anyone else for having purchased. Another section eaten up by inverter units for my solar installation (they're quite old and rather large, about 8' width of wall eaten up). Space under the 5' wide window is my cabinets holding my tools and supplies. If I imagine that whole space available for just a workshop, it would seem like quite the luxury.

Really, I just need to be thoughtful with regard to where I draw the line on "this place will do" vs. "sorry, no, I know you love the house but it won't work for me". It would be easy to end up in one of the houses like Jim described with a single car garage, small basement only accessible from inside, and a small lot, that met every other one of our wishes and desires.

I also wouldn’t consider a property with an HOA. They are a personification of the banality of evil.

I'm with you there. I lived in various cities in Orange County, CA when I was younger and there were places like Irvine, Laguna Niguel, etc. that had what I considered overly strict rules, like "can't leave garage door open more than 15 minutes". I'm sure there were rules regarding noise from various sources including power tools. Leaf blowers were of course permitted, tho; can't have those pesky leaves bespoiling the lawn!

[Roger Feeley]

I'm not a fan of battery backup sump pumps. Liberty Pump makes a sump pump powered by city water so no electricity. I have installed three of those so far as backups to electric pumps. If you are on a well, it's not so great.

[Roger Feeley]

Consider building. We built a house with a 1st floor footprint of 976 square feet and a 1200 sq ft basement. There's a floating slab patio off one end. I was able to get two different stairways to the basement. An internal spiral staircase is for people. There's also a 42" door to an external stair for stuff. It also has a big window well egress that was added so some future owner could have bedrooms down there. That turned out to be really handy for lumber. The egress is just a few feet from the driveway. I flip the cover up, and put the lumber in the well. Then I go to the shop and bring it in through the window. The exterior stairwell isn't all that convenient so the egress has saved me a lot of time and bother.

We also put plumbing groundwork in for a future bathroom. I wanted a buyer to have options.

[Roger Feeley]

This is a funny time to consider a move. In some places the housing market is red hot. We have a niece in Cincinnati and they have put in offers on many houses but get outbid. I read that the San Juan Islands off of Seattle are seeing an influx of people who realized that if they can work from home, their home can be anywhere so why not live someplace nice. Anyplace near the mountains or ocean is kind of crazy, I'm told.

[Leo Butler]

Consider building. We built a house with a 1st floor footprint of 976 square feet and a 1200 sq ft basement. There's a floating slab patio off one end. I was able to get two different stairways to the basement. An internal spiral staircase is for people. There's also a 42" door to an external stair for stuff. It also has a big window well egress that was added so some future owner could have bedrooms down there. That turned out to be really handy for lumber. The egress is just a few feet from the driveway. I flip the cover up, and put the lumber in the well. Then I go to the shop and bring it in through the window. The exterior stairwell isn't all that convenient so the egress has saved me a lot of time and bother.

We also put plumbing groundwork in for a future bathroom. I wanted a buyer to have options.

Sounds like you thought things out well. I'm not sure my wife and I are up for such a project; perhaps if we were sure this move was more or less permanent, we could consider doing it. But as our daughters are both in college and aren't anywhere near settling down somewhere, we don't know if/when we might decide to get closer to them.

We're starting the process early enough that we can wait and see what happens in the housing market as things (hopefully) settle down. Like Jim, we won't have to sell first in order to lock in a new place. It'll just cost us some in interest, which should be fine.

[roger wiegand]

The area along the MD/PA border is really lovely, but a weird mix of really nice old farms with small houses and some of the worst farmland turned hideous McMansions I've ever seen. If you can find one of the older places that isn't about to be completely surrounded with 7000 sf houses you can have a wonderful place to live. It's very convenient to be within easy striking distance of the light rail line to give you access to the cities, but of course that is more expensive and more likely to be "developed".

Since you want to do "odd" things, like woodworking, I'd avoid properties with a HOA like the plague.

I'd also avoid any property that needs a sump pump like the plague, but that may be just me.

We bought a beaten up 1952 garrison colonial on two acres in MA with a near-derilict barn. I fixed up the barn to serve as my shop, with great views of our meadow, and it is heavenly. With serious insulation the heating/cooling costs are nominal. We did a deep energy retrofit on the house and built a substantial addition to give us a first floor master and everything else we need to age in place; we spent a (relative) ton on insulation and making the place as efficient as possible, as a result our operating costs are tiny and the house is incredibly comfortable. Couldn't be happier with our choice to get a smaller house on a bigger lot while most of our neighbors were moving into condos. Having an above-ground shop with big windows and great views is priceless. Having a place to "go to work" for the last year has been very beneficial to marital harmony as well :-).

Rehabbing an old property wasn't (by far) the inexpensive option, but we ended up with a place that is perfect for us and is making us very happy.