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Thread: Suggestions Please

  1. #1

    Suggestions Please

    Drawing from the vast knowledge of the turners here I'm hoping someone can help me.

    I use a Oneway 1640 wood lathe and lately I have been having trouble drilling.

    I'm using a Morse taper adaptor and a screw on chuck (I have about 30 of them, the chucks that is) and as a result I am not interested in buying a new chuck.

    I try to 'set' the morse taper in the tailstock by sliding it in quickly and all seems good until my drill (Forstner or similar) makes a bit of a screech which then seems cause vibrations which loosen the Morse taper and allow it will spin in the tail stock.

    I have cleaned both male and female the best I can. On close examination it appears the male morse taper has scratches around the shaft. I have gently sanded it with 800 grit and oil but the scratches seem to go deeper than this process will fix.

    My question is. Should I buy a new male morse taper and try it and if it fails then can I assume the female part is galled or scratched. If this is the case, should I then buy a reamer and try to gently ream the tailstock which I am very reluctant to try.

    What would you suggest.

    I put bluing on the male part and here are a couple of pictures.
    The first is gently putting it in the tail stock and rotating it and the second is sliding it in quickly and then turning a bit with a pipe wrench.

    IMG_3393.jpgIMG_3394.jpg
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    The scratches showing at the small end would be a concern to me.

    If you run your fingernail over that area on the male MT, can you feel a raised area? If you can, carefully take a small jewelers file to remove the ridge. If the male MT doesn't have a ridge, then the Female Mt in the quill is damaged.

    I have cleaned up a galled female Mt by wrapping very fine sand paper around the male part and working slowly. But because the area of concern is so deep, I don't know if the thickness of the sand paper wouldn't allow that.

    Alternatively, you could buy an MT2 reamer set and clean it up. Do it by hand, take your time, and don't get too aggressive. You are only trying to remove the ridge in the quill.

  3. #3
    Thanks Brice, I'm thinking of buying a new male and adding blue and testing it before I use it. That should give me an idea of what is happening and if it marks the same or similar then I think I will buy a reamer to clean up the female. I don't suppose there is any such thing as a MT honing tool?
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    After making sure you have good MT contact, you might try using a MT male with a 1/4-20 threaded hole. Then you run a 1/4-20 threaded rod through the tailstock spindle (also through a piece of scrap wood in the back of the spindle ram wheel) and then tighten the nut. This setup will not allow the drill bit and chuck to rattle loose and spin.

    Make sure you clear the shavings out of the bit spirals regularly while drilling the hole by withdrawing the drill bit completely several times during the drilling operation. Also try slowing your drilling speed as appropriate for that size bit. Make sure to start with a sharp starter bit followed by a sharp regular bit so that you hole starts and stays on center. Make sure to use as short of a bit as needed (longer bits tend to flex more). Try to extend the tailstock spindle as little as possible after seating the MT.

    All of these items will help you to be more successful.

  5. #5
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    Not being able to see the pics, reaming it gently sounds like a good idea if you can see a raised section on the female side.

    I'm guessing your male taper came loose and the small end started to scribe circles in the female portion because the MT male corner is sharp. The narrow part of the male end should not be sharp (it should be ever so slightly rounded to prevent this from happening). If not, take some sanding cloth and knock off the sharp corner to prevent future issues.

  6. #6
    Thanks for the ideas Dick. The Oneway tailstock doesn't continue through the unit so a piece of threaded rod won't work. That was my first thought. I try to follow all your other suggestions with adding air as I drill as suggested in another thread by Mr Jordan. Sorry you can't see the photos. I think I shall buy a new male part and start over. The first thing I will do is to round the small end as you suggest and see where that takes me but you just may be right about the damage to the female part. I try to look into it with a good light but really can't see any damage. One other thought is the male one I have is not too expensive and I wonder if the quality of the taper might be a little less than desirable. Once again, thanks for the tips and ideas!
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  7. #7
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    Some male tapers are longer/shorter than others. Look and see if you have a shorter one that avoids contacting the damaged area.

    I always hold the outside of the chuck to keep it from spinning just in case it starts to do so.

    I'm sorry to hear that there is no through-hole on the Oneway. There are sharp people designing/manufacturing the Oneways so they must have a reason for making it that way.

  8. #8
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    They do make an inexpensive cleaning tool for MT that you might want to try first. Check to see if someone froma local club has one you can borrow.

  9. #9
    Thanks Dick. I have cleaned the taper and I have one of those plastic cleaner things. Maybe I should try cutting off the end of the male part? Oh but if I do then it won't self eject as it does now. I could of course sand of file it down in that area but I do believe it was supposed to be hardened. I will order a new one and then maybe try a file or grinding a little off the small part where the scratches are.
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  10. #10
    Pretty much every single time I see some one on a You Tube video drilling with a forstner bit in a jacobs chuck mounted in the tailstock, one hand is on the crank, and the other is holding the jacobs chuck. Not so much when using the smaller twist bits. If the morris taper was too tight of a fit, you would have problems getting it out of the tailstock, even with a bigger knock out bar...

    robo hippy

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Peter,

    I didn't have time to read all the responses so maybe this is covered. Once a MT spins it can gall both the MT shaft and the socket and nothing will hold with precision again. You can fix the shaft with a flat file and fix the socket with a round file but it's far better to use a MT reamer for the socket. I use this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07933VYD7

    Any scratches below the machined surface won't hurt anything but you need to remove any raised metal from galling.

    I don't allow the taper to spin, I ALWAYS use something to prevent that. Usually I grab with some vise grips and rest the handle of the vise grips on the tool rest. Some chucks have appropriate holes that I can hold with a rod. It's possible to grind flats on the MT and hold with a wrench.

    If I have the right bit, I use taper shank bits and avoid the jacob's chuck completely. I have a fairly complete set but not all the sizes. These still require auxiliary holding to prevent spinning if the bit gets tight or jammed.

    taper_1_IMG_20160919_094408.jpg

    In the rare case that you can arrange your work to hold the drill chuck in the headstock and the work in the tailstock, you can use a drawbar to hold the Jacobs chuck in the headstock. Most of the MT mandrels on my Jacobs chucks are threaded for a drawbar. It can't spin with a tight drawbar.

    JKJ

  12. #12
    Thanks everyone. Rob the Oneway knocks out the tailstock items by cranking back till it hits inside and pops out. I always drill small first then move to bigger and blow out the chips with air while drilling which makes it a little difficult to hold the chuck. Thanks for commenting I always am interested to hear from you!
    John thanks as well much of my work of late is made easier with a large 2"plus hole to quickly remove a lot of stock and my taper drills just are't big enough. I will however take your advise re a reamer as I'm pretty sure there has been some minor damage.
    Has anyone had experience with male Morese tapers from Amazon? Are they likely to be less accurate than others?
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Blair View Post
    ...
    Has anyone had experience with male Morese tapers from Amazon? Are they likely to be less accurate than others?
    Do you mean those made for drill chucks, 2MT on and JT on the other? All MT products I've ever had have been perfect regardless of the maker, except.... I got some badly machined MT mandrels from Rubber Chucky, aluminum, and not machined to the right taper. (The mandrels actually wobbled in the socket.) When I called they guy told me to pound them in with a hammer! I reworked them instead.

    If in doubt, any machine shop can test them before the return window expires. Or with a known good MT socket use the bluing method you showed. Should get even markings all the way down the taper.

    BTW, if drilling 2" diameter hole I hold a forstner bit with an end mill collet to eliminate the jacob's chuck. #2MT end mill holders come in various diameters. I have a set of large forstner's with 3/8" shafts so this one will fit all of them. I use this mostly to drill 2-1/16" recesses in the bowl and platter stock to hold with a chuck.

    end_mill_holder.jpg

    JKJ

  14. #14
    Thanks for the info John. The mill collet appears to still need a male morse taper? How do you hold it from slipping when drilling. At present I am planning to dedicate a set of vase grips to the task after I get a reaming set for the tail stock.
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Blair View Post
    .... How do you hold it from slipping when drilling. At present I am planning to dedicate a set of vase grips to the task after I get a reaming set for the tail stock.
    I grab it with vise grips and rest the vise grips against the tool rest. I have vise grips from micro to monster size.
    However, for shallow recesses I usually just hold the end mill holder with my hand and drill gently. It's got a nice sized section easy to hold. I've thought about milling a hole in the side to hold a rod but haven't tried that yet.

    Also, if drilling deeper than just a recess for the chuck, I always apply compressed air into the back of the forstner bit during the drilling. This not only cools the bit but clears the chips which helps cool the bit! I rarely have to back out the drill to clear chips. I hit on this idea a bunch of years ago and it worked so well I use it every time. I always use carbide forstner bits since a precise, smooth-sided hold is rarely needed in woodturning.

    JKJ

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