Moxon vise built into bench

[Tom Bussey]

I built a Moxon Vise from Bench Crafted planes on his web sight.
1. It was big and heavy. Mass and weight I believe it that principal. But storage was a problem.
2. Clamping it to my bench was a pain at least in my eyes. The weight of the front jaw tended to want to pull the vise off onto the floor.
3. With the height of the vise added to my bench height it tended to put things a little to high when sawing.

I wanted to build a new bench and wanted to incorporate all of the things that were missing from other benches I had built. I thought an in built moxon would be the way to go and I still think so.

I prefer a shoulder vise over a leg vise, and a tail vise over a wagon vise. I also like to get up close and personal when cutting dovetails and the shoulder vise put me back a little farther than I like. I did however shorten the shoulder vise screw 2 inches, but shoulder vise still put me back a little farther than I like. I also like to angle my body somewhat for the natural swing of my arm and a Moxon allows for that. So here goes the design on the fly.


The most important being height. I just used the saw and cut lots of cuts until I found the most comfortable height for me. The height of the bench was firmly established so all I needed was the height of the wood to be cut measured front the top of the bench. Then I could establish the height of the moxon.

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The rest is history.

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And I hope I have added a lot of different ideas into your bench build.

[Tom Bussey]

More uses built into a bench.

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[Bob Jones 5443]

Great review, Tom. I went back and forth for months between setting the Moxon into the bench (flush with the bench height) and clamping the vise onto the top of the bench. One of the considerations was certainly the need to take the vise off and store it. Competing with this was the notion of having the screws and handwheels permanently jutting out from the bench front.

In the end I went the simpler route –– clamped on top. This brings a dovetail cut close to elbow height for me when standing. And I found a pretty simple way to hang the vise up and out of the way when not in use.

In fairness, my approach does not provide a flat bench behind the vise and level with the top. I do wish I had that, and I'm considering making the Derek Cohen I-beam fixture to hold up the work piece.

I did not have any difficulties with the Moxon wanting to tip forward, even before I get the clamps in place, because the front chop is about 3/16 deeper than the rear, the rear chop is 1-3/4" thick, and my lead screws are a foot long, so there's weight toward the rear. And since my bench does not move, the vise is rock solid when clamped.

Loved your photos. Those handwheels you make are works of art.

[James Pallas]

Tom, I have always liked your bench from the time you first showed it. Your work is example of craftsmanship. I agree with you on tail vises and shoulder vises. Although a shoulder vise seems like something good I can find a way to get tangled in one easily. It is great to be able to build what you want to suit your needs. When benches are involved one size does not fit all. Your Moxon looks good also. If it works the way you want it to, it’s perfect.
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

Tom, you know I like your bench and your work - plus I have the Moxon hardware from you - but I cannot agree on a Moxon dovetailing vise built into the front of the bench. This may suit your sawing style, but then you are twisted and crazy.

I did try this about 25 years ago (there must be photos of this somewhere), long before the double screw was referred to as a Moxon vise, and before the idea was to raise the vise to a more ergonomic height for sawing. I thought it was the bees knees ... until Chris Schwarz began posting about the Moxon. That was the point when I build a Moxon vise, and then decided to build a new bench since it freed the other vises for work holding.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Erickson]

Tom, your bench is one of the finest I've seen. I idea of shortening the shoulder vise and the thick shoulder clamp seems to be good idea. Around 25 years ago I built a traditional bench using the plans and hardware from LV which has served me well even though it's to small.
To do it now I'd like a larger bench with 4" thick top rather than 2" top with 4" dog section, with drawers like you have done and the shorter shoulder vise. Tom what's your bench dimensions?
The attached moxon doesn't appeal to me but I'm only getting started with dovetailing by hand.

[Tom Bussey]

Derek, I like your idea of being able to clamp the wood the wood when marking for the pins from the tails. I am a pin first man but I see the possibilities and I have started on being able to cut them both ways. I thought your Micro Jig clamps awful expensive for what they are, basically a F style clamp. But the more I see them advertised, the more I see the possibilities. Can they replace some tee track, yes can they replace all tee track, no? Are they worth purchasing Yes I think so,. So thank you.
Yes I like my bench. A lot of thought went into it. The one thing I do not like is the hickory top, Like hard Maple it is a not a good choice for a top.

John stated that the attached moxon doesn't appeal to me but. And I find that refreshing and great. But he knows it is a different way of doing it and has considered the possibilities. What is important is that John knows there are other ways of achieving the same goal.

What you are seeing is 45 years of coming up against problems when building things and the things that were incorporated into the bench to solve those problems. It is not the bench that I am showing off it is a way of showing different solutions to problems and to maybe help someone with far less experience get information.

I am trying to pass along information

[Don Dorn]

I admit that these are pretty ingenious ides, but I must ask, do people do that many dovetails to justify it? I do them too, but generally not on very wide stock. That's what makes this hobby so interesting - everyone has different techniques for their work.

[Bob Jones 5443]

I admit that these are pretty ingenious ides, but I must ask, do people do that many dovetails to justify it? I do them too, but generally not on very wide stock. That's what makes this hobby so interesting - everyone has different techniques for their work.

Don, I built my Moxon with only about 17" between the screws because I didn't envision cutting dovetails any wider than that. The, immediately, I could see other reasons to clamp an edge, mostly for planing, but also to cut in a mortise for a knife hinge. My Moxon is too narrow for that! Oh well, I still like it.

Tom, I assume, can take out the middle screw and have a wide vise. If you have the room (I do not), that is an elegant solution.

[Bill Carey]

Clever solution Tom, that works for you. And I really like that you are passing along info and ideas, encouraging others to think outside the walnut box, as it were. Beautiful bench as well - puts mine to shame. But one thing about moxons has had me wondering for the last couple of years. Occasionally you read here in a thread about the nuisance of cleaning off the bench to do an operation - maybe a moxon, or sharpening or sanding. Many of us have sharpening stations, or sanding stations with down draft tables, etc. But as near as I can tell I'm alone in having a dedicated moxon station. There is 24" betweeen the screws that open to 10" with a 10" deep top for clamping, and everything I need for DT's is right there on a couple of shelves. I also use it on almost every project for not only DT's, but also to clean up the shoulders of tenons, to plane drawer sides, to router mortises, etc. It takes up 6 sf and is on wheels.

Just curious what the advantage is in having to clamp a fixture to the bench (other than tradition), and if anyone else has made something similar.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Bill, your Moxon station was an object of envy for me until I admitted to myself that I don’t have the space for a separate table. So for me the advantage isn’t so much that I can clamp my Moxon on, it’s that I can take it off the bench after use.

[Tom Bussey]

I would like to address a couple of comments.

The first one is from Bill. Occasionally you read here in a thread about the nuisance of cleaning off the bench to do an operation - maybe a moxon.

I have drawers to keep planes chisels and things that are used at the bench. The answer to that problem is to put things away when finished with an operation And lastly a news Year resolution to never leave the shop with anything on the bench. Well that problem is one I do not have an answer for because no matter what is done on the bench it will still have to be cleared for the next operation.

I am posting a picture of my bench front without the Moxon. I can take all three screws out so nothing is in the way, The bench is thick so the board that clamps to the bench is only 4/4 cherry that is planed smooth probable a little over 7/8ths thick as is the front of the vise. The jaws hang on the wall when not in use. The back jaw has keys in it and one of the pictures shows a picture of it being level. When doing any work on the end of the board you want is perpendicular. And that take it out of the equation. Both the moxon and the shoulder vise do that.

The picture also shows the board jack removed. It is a nuisance when working at the bench, no matter where it is it is in the way and has to be moved. It to comes off and hangs on the same pin as the moxon jaws.

To Don's statement about most stuff not being wide that is why there are places for 3 screws and 2 keys.

To respond to Bob Jones statement, The, immediately, I could see other reasons to clamp an edge, mostly for planning, but also to cut in a mortise for a knife hinge. My Moxon is too narrow for that! Oh well, I still like it. That is why the shoulder vise, board jack and hold fasts. The end of the shoulder vise is a board stop and it also clamps angled boards. If you look closely at the tail vise you will see a round bench dog, so even the tail vise can be as a clamp.

Sorry I cant get the picture to post.

[Tom Bussey]

DSC03414.JPG this should be in the reply above.

And I also have a small router table that clamps into the tail vise by a piece of wood screwed to the bottom of the table. It has fold up legs . PUt it loosely in the vise swing down the legs push it down firmly on the bench and finish tightening the vise screws.

So much for the $500 router tables that every one has to have.

[William Fretwell]

When you clean off the bench you put the stuff on the stairs?

[Bill Carey]

I would like to address a couple of comments.

The first one is from Bill. Occasionally you read here in a thread about the nuisance of cleaning off the bench to do an operation - maybe a moxon.

I have drawers to keep planes chisels and things that are used at the bench. The answer to that problem is to put things away when finished with an operation And lastly a news Year resolution to never leave the shop with anything on the bench. Well that problem is one I do not have an answer for because no matter what is done on the bench it will still have to be cleared for the next operation.

...............

Hey Tom - your work bench is awesome - love the way you have the drawers under it. Someday (maybe) I'll make a real bench, and I've saved a picture of yours to use as inspiration. Years ago I bought "The Workbench" book, but I think all I need is that pic of yours. And yes, I clean up the bench a lot while working - when the kids were growing up they thought every flat surface was meant to be used as semi-permanent storage, and it drove me nuts not having a place to put something down.