F-style clamps vs holdfasts for work holding

[Tim Monroe]

It's been interesting learning the many different ways to clamp a piece to a workbench. And the different ways to build a bench. Of all the online resources I've read and returned to, this is the place where I've learned the most. So before I start cutting, I wanted to ask your advise.

I'm planning on ripping 3.75" wide boards out of 8/4 soft maple, or some other hardwood that's easier to plane than hard maple. I'll orient the grain in the same direction and face glue the boards to make two 7' long pieces 3.75" thick. The approximate widths of the front and back bench top pieces can either be 18" & 7" (10 & 4 laminations), or 16" & 9" (9 & 5 laminations), or 14" & 11" (8 & 6 laminations). I'll leave 4.5" space between these split tops for some removable tool bins. This will make the bench top 84" long x 30" wide.

The base will be trestle style with the legs out flush to the long edges of the top. Top will overhang about 14" at each end. There will be no apron around the edges of the top. I'd like to start without a dogging system and first try all the other work holding techniques. I'm planning on a 9" Eclipse quick release for the face vise and my Grandfather's 7" Columbian as a tail vise.

I'm 70 and just retired, so this won't be a production shop bench. Just something for me to get back to what I always enjoyed doing. I've got a nice shop space in an unheated garage. We're starting to see more grass than snow around Cleveland now, so as soon as it warms up a little, I'm looking forward to getting back in the shop.

So finally I'm getting to the question: with 4.5" space between the split tops, do I need to drill holes for hold fasts? Will F-style clamps hold as securely as holdfasts for clamping battens, planning stops, doe's foot, boards on edge to chop a mortise, a moxon vise on top of bench, etc. Can a F-style clamp apply the same amount of pressure as a holdfast?
Thank you,
Tim

[Curt Putnam]

I am going to suggest that your glue up dimension should closer to 4.0" in order to end up with a finished bench thickness of 3.75". You will not get an F style clamp to the center of the bench sections if that is important. Holdfasts are faster but I do not have any idea of their strength as compared to an F style clamp.

[David Publicover]

Congratulations on your retirement!
If the narrow section is at the front you will likely be able to reach with a clamp. If you can’t, it’s easy to drill a couple holes for holdfasts later. I bought the Gramercy holdfasts from Lee Valley last fall and am very satisfied with how they work and they were pretty reasonably priced.
I have family in the Cleveland area so I’m happy you are getting some nicer weather. Enjoy the new bench!

[Frederick Skelly]

Tim, congratulations on your retirement and welcome to The Creek!

I find I use both F-clamps and Holdfasts. F-clamps work where you can get a good grip - which for me is along the edges of my bench. But holdfasts are my main clsmping devices. Like David, I chose the Grammercy Holdfasts.

Enjoy your build. Please post photos!
Fred

[Phil Mueller]

Hi Tim, and welcome!. I don’t know what the clamping pressure is of a holdfast vs. Fstyle clamp, but I have a Roubo style bench with just 4 dog holes. I haven’t had an issue clamping with F style, quick grip, wooden screw clamps, etc. I don’t have/use any traditional holdfasts, but do use a few of the Veritas hold down clamps in dog holes. Pretty sure you’ll be fine either way.

[Todd Trebuna]

Hi Tim, and welcome!. I don’t know what the clamping pressure is of a holdfast vs. Fstyle clamp, but I have a Roubo style bench with just 4 dog holes. I haven’t had an issue clamping with F style, quick grip, wooden screw clamps, etc. I don’t have/use any traditional holdfasts, but do use a few of the Veritas hold down clamps in dog holes. Pretty sure you’ll be fine either way.

I'm in agreement with this, although I have a ton of dog holes. I've seen alot of good woodworkers using nothing but F style clamps to secure the wood, so I think this is easily doable. There are going to be gaps, but I think they would be manageable but just a couple of dog holes or by using a combination of wooden screw clamps, F Clamp'ed to the bench.

[Derek Cohen]

Tim, if you are planing this to be primarily a hand tool bench, and working principally from one side, then 30" is too wide ... unless you are 9 foot tall and have arms like am orangutang, in which case you can do anything you please

20-23" is a preferred width for a single solid top, but it sounds like you want a split top bench? My own bench is a Roubo, solid top, so I really do not get split top benches. I have been working with hand tools for over 30 years and very happy with a single top. I like keeping it simple.

Either way, hold fasts are important. All the other methods are great as well. Around 3" - 3 1/2" is preferred for something like the Gramercy (which are excellent). A thicker top is too much for them. I also like and use the Veritas Hold Downs.

Three different clamps in this picture, excluding the tail vise ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Becker]

There's no one way that's best for sure. I LOVE my holdfasts and use them a lot. In fact, they are the reason my bench top has three rows of .75" dog holes in thicker material surrounded by the 96mm grid of 2mm holes. I also use clamps when the bench edges come into play. Whatever works.

[johnny means]

If I had to choose one, F clamps would be my choice. I can go years without touching a holdfast. I can barely get through a couple of hours without an F clamp. They're are just so many things I use then for outside of holding material still. I've even got a couple with reversible heads that serve as clamps on the slider and Bridgeport.

[Tim Monroe]

I am going to suggest that your glue up dimension should closer to 4.0" in order to end up with a finished bench thickness of 3.75". You will not get an F style clamp to the center of the bench sections if that is important. Holdfasts are faster but I do not have any idea of their strength as compared to an F style clamp.

Thanks Curt. I should have said final top thickness would be closer to 3.5" after all final planing and smoothing. I was hoping 3.5" would be thick enough for a 5' span between the two top rails/bearers of the leg assemblies. And also thick enough to hang the face vise and tail vise at the ends of lamination, outside of the legs.

[Tim Monroe]

Tim, if you are planing this to be primarily a hand tool bench, and working principally from one side, then 30" is too wide ... unless you are 9 foot tall and have arms like am orangutang, in which case you can do anything you please

20-23" is a preferred width for a single solid top, but it sounds like you want a split top bench? My own bench is a Roubo, solid top, so I really do not get split top benches. I have been working with hand tools for over 30 years and very happy with a single top. I like keeping it simple.

Either way, hold fasts are important. All the other methods are great as well. Around 3" - 3 1/2" is preferred for something like the Gramercy (which are excellent). A thicker top is too much for them. I also like and use the Veritas Hold Downs.

Three different clamps in this picture, excluding the tail vise ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

Like the photo of your shop Derek. I'm planning on adding a twin screw to mount on bench top like you do. Seems to solve a lot of problems by having a higher working height for some work and also more wide board/panel options. And, as far as a 30" width, this will be my first bench that is not attached to a wall. I figured with a 4.5" space between the split tops, it would be an easy reach into some removable tool bins. Guess I thought if it was too narrow it could tip over. But I did notice 30" was the widest is any of the books, except for some huge old Shaker benches.

[Tim Monroe]

Thanks guys. Sounds like the consensus is that few well placed .75" diameter holes and a couple of good hold fasts will come in handy.

[Derek Cohen]

Tim, my bench stands about 8-12” away from the wall. The European Oak bench top is 21” wide and 3 1/2” thick. The base is reclaimed Jarrah. Solid and immovable would be an understatement. Do not fear making a narrower base/top.

There is a documentation if the build on this index page (scan down): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/index.html

I have a lot of frequently-used hand tools on the wall, where they are easy to grab. A wider bench top would make this uncomfortable. There is also a pair of tool wells attached to the wall, rather than the bench, and again these would be too far away for me if the bench was 30” (I am close to 5’10” when my wife nags me to stand up straight).



Incidentally, am planning on reducing some of the clutter with my current project, which is a cabinet under the bench ...





If this interests you, you can follow the build (lower down on) this index page: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Meryl Logue]

Derek, there’s something about that image that makes it look like a Rockwell painting. 😊