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Thread: Cyclone outside venting

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    No Bags, No Filters, No Hassle.
    I have been exhausting chips and dust outside since the early 1980's.
    Performance increase is excellent even with a very old 600 CFM collector.
    Heat/Cooling loss is negligible in moderate temperatures. Reasonable on cold or hot days.
    The building and machines have more influence on the temperature than the air.
    Noise is not a problem even in an area with close neighbors.
    The clothes dryer vent in the house is about the same noise level.
    I have used plywood boxes to catch the chips and currently have a large steel tank.
    I dumped right out into the yard for a couple of years.
    Over a hundred people have visited my shop and experienced the efficiency of my dust collection system.

    I used the same setup at Christopher Newport University when I ran the sign shop there, its still operating the same way today.
    The CNC Router and laser engraver ran almost all day 5 days a week the five years I was the CNU sign maker.
    That’s great to hear Keith. Thanks. I would love to vent outside again. I did at my old shop, just piling up the sawdust outside, but that was a basement garage and assumed since it was a partial basement it stayed warm/cool because of that. A few questions for you.

    How large is your shop?
    Do you think the size of the shop matters with temperature fluctuations?
    Does it affect your humidity level?
    Do you ever run your dust collector for long periods like a few hours or more?
    Do you think a larger collector like a 3hp would cause more issues.

    Thanks again. Good to hear someone doing this without much issue.

  2. #17
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chouinard View Post
    We are considering outside venting for our 5hp Oneida high vacuum cyclone. Any guidance/considerations regarding outside venting would be greatly appreciated.
    I first ducted outside maybe 10 years ago. Back then my workshop was in the basement and I didn't care about sending the cold basement air outside. But I certainly appreciated the boost my measly 3/4 HP DC got once I removed the bag hanging off the side. When we moved about 5 years ago, the big tools had to go into the garage. Again, I ducted outside but this tie it was mainly a space issue. There was no room for a properly sized filter. But in the summer, when the heat is scorching, it sure would be nice to have the garage air conditioned. I've been looking at another DC...
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

    Diapers and Politicians need to be changed often... Usually for the same reason.

  3. #18
    Join Date
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    When I had a smaller DC (the usual HF model) and 4" duct, I vented outside with good results. I collected chips via Thien top hat setup, and outside the building I had the exhaust routed such that sound had to bounce through several planned obstacles before releasing to the nearby neighbors. Couldn't even hear it from 10 feet away.

    When I increased to 6" pipe and a more powerful DC, I had also recently upgraded to mini-split HVAC... and decided it was time to install better cyclone and wynne filter to keep my air in my space. I have over-filled my bin a few times now, and my "spidey sense" is now well tuned to how much woodworking it takes to be close to full. I don't expect repeated over-filling events to continue to be a problem.

    (Note: Jim's comments about any leaks... that's key too)

    Lastly, when I do want to clean the filter, I've found it's worth unbolting it, bringing it outside someplace away from homes etc. and using a combination of tapping, shop vac-ing, leaf blowing, and cursing the annoying task.


    edit: This discussion is partly location-specific I think... Here in my part of PA, we have about 3 months of "lovely" per year, with the rest of the year being "damn hot", "damn rainy", or "damn cold". Please forgive my French What I mean is, my temp / humidity control that I pay for is valuable to keep in my building, and having my typical multiple hours of DC run time staying inside my shop is therefore a good play in my climate.
    Last edited by Bob Riefer; 02-28-2021 at 11:08 AM.
    - Bob R.
    Collegeville PA (30 minutes west of Philly)

  4. #19
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    Jim, I did slightly overfill the bin not once but twice.

    Thanks for the encouragement Keith.

    PS: How did I survive the last ten years without a scissor lift !?!

  5. #20
    I also vent outside with a 2hp HF DC. It goes through a 6 inch dryer vent. My neighbors both have lots twice as wide as mine so my exhaust is not close to their house and it isn't particularly noisy anyway. I do not normally heat or cool my shop so it does not fight any heating/cooling equipment. I do use a box fan on one end of the shop in the passage doorway to get a breeze blowing in the summer some. I reversed it's direction so it doesn't suck dusty air back inside. I use a Super Dust Deputy to collect all the chips and a good bit of the dust before the air is discharged outside. I see a little dust on the dryer vent but nothing elsewhere. I built a wooden box to collect the dust and it has a plexiglass window at the top so I can see when it is getting full. I know to check it when I am running the planner. I know from the dust deputy on my shop vac that the cyclone becomes significantly less effective if the dust bin gets nearly full. So I usually stop well before the bin is full (on the DC, not on the shop vac (it has no window)).

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    No Bags, No Filters, No Hassle.

    Heat/Cooling loss is negligible in moderate temperatures. Reasonable on cold or hot days.
    That might depend on how you define cold +30F or -20F?

    Actually, the big problem with raising the temp of that outside -20F air is that the dew point is around -25F or even lower. By the time it gets up to 60F, that air has a relative humidity of around 2.5%. Even if the air has a dew point of +20F, at 60F it is only around 20% RH.

    In winter, the air in my detached shop can get so dry my hydrometer can't even measure it accurately (it just reads 16%), and running a small humidifier all day won't even change the reading.

  7. #22
    Join Date
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    Hi Dan,
    I have a 2hp cyclone in an attached shed, 55 gal drum to collect the swarf, I leave the dust bag off the bottom of the filter and leave a small screened window open for air venting outside. Also have in slab radiant hot water heat. I keep the temp ~65 deg. and heat loss has never been a problem--11' ceiling and 1500 sq. ft. PNW is a mild climate but consistent low 40's Nov.-May. Noise level inside is good for conversation and the neighbors often comment that I am a bit of a blow hard but never mention anything about the DC noise.
    I leave the bag off the filter to reduce resistance/increase CFM and fine dust does build up a little but the room-4' x 6'- is dedicated to the DC only so not an issue.
    If you were doing production volume and your DC was on 10 hrs/day in the dead of winter it may make a difference but for hobby DC use and your heated slab you shouldn't notice any significant heat loss or big energy cost increase.

  8. #23
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chouinard View Post
    Jim, I did slightly overfill the bin not once but twice.!
    I have done this more than once and if it's missed for too long...the impaction in the filter gets to be really tight. I have the makings of a bin sensor as my cyclone is in a sound reduced closet and out of view, but have failed ot "get around to it" to-date. I will get it done at some point...

    But I've also had a few times where somehow I didn't get a good seal on the bin after emptying it...which is actually a feat given how the lid physically clamps on the barrel!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by John C Bush View Post
    Hi Dan,
    I have a 2hp cyclone in an attached shed, 55 gal drum to collect the swarf, I leave the dust bag off the bottom of the filter and leave a small screened window open for air venting outside. Also have in slab radiant hot water heat. I keep the temp ~65 deg. and heat loss has never been a problem--11' ceiling and 1500 sq. ft. PNW is a mild climate but consistent low 40's Nov.-May. Noise level inside is good for conversation and the neighbors often comment that I am a bit of a blow hard but never mention anything about the DC noise.
    I leave the bag off the filter to reduce resistance/increase CFM and fine dust does build up a little but the room-4' x 6'- is dedicated to the DC only so not an issue.
    If you were doing production volume and your DC was on 10 hrs/day in the dead of winter it may make a difference but for hobby DC use and your heated slab you shouldn't notice any significant heat loss or big energy cost increase.
    For others in a less moderate climate...
    All of this variability in the heat/humidity of the air in the shop, with the attendant energy costs, and hassle of dealing with wood movement thru these swings in a non-air-conditioned shop. All so you don’t have to think about whether the filter is clogged? I’m glad I don’t have to concern myself about that. :^)

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Nashville, TN
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    Aside from the shop conditioning issue, there should be a noticeable performance increase in your DC system. You should get better suction at the hoods/machines, collecting more of the dust, and it will stay that way. In addition, your cyclone efficiency will improve since the airflow is higher (higher inlet velocity is higher centrifugal force, meaning better collection efficiency).

    I wouldn't do a dryer vent, especially a 4" for a 5HP collector. That probably has more DP loss than a filter. For best results, size the duct for an outlet velocity of 3000 to 3500 FPM. Slower will be less noise, less backpressure, and therefore more air collected at the source. Outlet ducting is all under a slight positive pressure so you should be able to use whatever material is most practical.

  11. #26
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    Feb 2003
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    Hayes, Virginia
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    13,940
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Evans View Post
    That’s great to hear Keith. Thanks. I would love to vent outside again. I did at my old shop, just piling up the sawdust outside, but that was a basement garage and assumed since it was a partial basement it stayed warm/cool because of that. A few questions for you.

    How large is your shop?
    Do you think the size of the shop matters with temperature fluctuations?
    Does it affect your humidity level?
    Do you ever run your dust collector for long periods like a few hours or more?
    Do you think a larger collector like a 3hp would cause more issues.

    Thanks again. Good to hear someone doing this without much issue.
    My shop is 24 by 36 feet with a 9 foot ceiling with three garage doors and one personnel door well insulated walls and ceiling. The garage doors leak typical of what you would expect.
    Shop size is relative to many issues such as how well it's insulated and the capacity of your HVAC system. Most workshops have plenty of steel and concrete floors where the majority of heat is stored, its not in the air.
    Humidity is a big deal in my area. It's always humid here because there is water everywhere. I use a mini-split heat pump in my shop that does a pretty good job of removing humidity in the air.
    My shop is where I design and fabricate signs now. I used to do a lot of woodworking both hobby and commercial jobs. The run time on my dust collector varies from an hour per day to ten hours per day depending on where I am in a project. I work alone most of the time and that dictates how I plan my work.
    I doubt that a larger DC would make that much difference as long as the ratio of shop space to DC performance is similar.

    One of the nice things about exhausting outside is that you need a much smaller DC than you would normally purchase. I also expect that it extends the life of your DC, mine has been in my shop for about 36 years, can't believe it is not totally worn out. Note that my CNC Router and Laser Engraver run more hours per month then any normal woodworking machine would. The DC in my shop services both machines plus a 6" by 80" drum sander, 15" planer and a couple other machines. I also run the DC when I am welding.

    Now, if you live in upstate New York where the temperature is minus 30 degrees F all Winter exhausting outside would not be a good idea. I know I lived in Oswego NY for two years. The majority of the States do not see that kind of extreme weather only the most northern states. Normal temps in Virginia range from 90 in the Summer to 20 in the Winter with extremes ranging from about 12 degrees to 105 degrees when we have really bad weather.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Dawson View Post
    For others in a less moderate climate...
    All of this variability in the heat/humidity of the air in the shop, with the attendant energy costs, and hassle of dealing with wood movement thru these swings in a non-air-conditioned shop. All so you don’t have to think about whether the filter is clogged? I’m glad I don’t have to concern myself about that. :^)
    On mine, when the collection drum gets filled, everything ends up outside. One time I didn't catch it until it had covered the garbage cans sitting under the vent hood.

    Back in the last shop, before I built the cyclone, almost everything was spit outside. Apparently, by removing the filter bag and venting outside, the loss of back pressure allowed the chips to simply bypass the drum.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..." - Mark Twain

    Diapers and Politicians need to be changed often... Usually for the same reason.

  13. #28
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    Modesto, CA, USA
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    I think the OP may be confused about airflow. It does not matter where the DC is located, inside or outside, if it is exhausting outside it is still pumping all that conditioned shop air outside.
    Bill D.

  14. #29
    Dan, maybe your best bet is to set up the unit with filters and a bypass option. If you aren't losing too much heat in your coastal climate you can eventually dispense with the filters, or you could use them in cold weather only and enjoy the increased system efficiency in milder months.
    Last edited by Kevin Jenness; 03-01-2021 at 4:09 PM.

  15. #30
    Join Date
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    Some seem to be suggesting that exhausting outside won't be a big impact to interior temp/humidity control... I have a really hard time believing that based on unscientific evidence around my own home.

    For example... my kids like to leave the bathroom fan on for hours on end with the door shut.. The room will be ice cold in the winter when they do this.

    Or... When my wife accidentally burns something in the oven, she will throw a small fan in the window to blow the smoke out... it quickly changes the temperature in the room.

    And... the power companies offer incentives to better seal your doors, windows, and electrical outlets... all to reduce air movement and reduce HVAC costs...

    So, why would a dust collector sucking air from inside and moving to outside not cause the same issue?
    - Bob R.
    Collegeville PA (30 minutes west of Philly)

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