Probably a stupid question...

[Osvaldo Cristo]

It run worldwide the terrible scenes of Texan houses being flooded by blowed pipes at this unsual local Winter. It is really sad to see desperated people losing most of their possetions in a such way.

On the other hand, at last here in our country, people, included myself, cannot understand why people there simply did not shut off the main water entrance when the leak started. Don´t they have a main water switch in the water entrance for each home? Don´t they have a switch valve inside home that shut off water completely?

I can see a such disaster occurring in a house without people inside but it is a challenge to me to understand that if there are people inside home.

Thanks i advance if you can give me the answer...

Take care!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Osvaldo, you came to the right place for a stupid answer to a stupid question! LOL!

In short, yes most homes have a shutoff valve outside the home and most have one within the home.

[Dave Cav]

A lot of those probably occurred after the occupants vacated the house for a warmer location, and failed to close the main water shut off before leaving.

Unfortunately a lot of people just have no clue as to how things (like main water shut off valves) work.

[Doug Dawson]

A lot of those probably occurred after the occupants vacated the house for a warmer location, and failed to close the main water shut off before leaving.

Unfortunately a lot of people just have no clue as to how things (like main water shut off valves) work.

This has never happened before in Central to South Texas, in its extreme, and nothing even _remotely_ like it has happened here in over thirty years. Most Texans have no experience with it. The standard advice has always been to keep the taps dripping during a hard freeze. People get that from the local news. Nothing in the local media talked about shutting the water off at the street, and the way those valves are usually configured, you’d need a special utility wrench to do it, which few people have (you could always call the utility to come out and do it for you.) In fact, during the third day of the freeze people were told by the local media, instructed by the utilities, to stop their taps from dripping, so that they could more easily repressurize the systems.

Needless to say, people who were “just doing as they were told” suffered some calamitous consequences. Trust the gubment, huh? :^)

I suppose you could just go on the internet for a second opinion, but that was down (as was cel phone service) in many areas. Chipping your way into the car (if you could) to listen to the car radio was often the only way to get any information as to what was going on. The roads were impassible anyway.

What _we_ did here in South Texas was shut off the water at the street and drain all the plumbing. No water issues, even though we were without power for three days.

What really mystified _me_ is all of the so-called facilities managers who had no idea what to do. Some of the most dramatic media footage after the fact was of commercial and institutional buildings that had severe water damage. I guess they never saw it coming.

[Jim Matthews]

This has never happened before in Central to South Texas, in its extreme, and nothing even _remotely_ like it has happened here in over thirty years. Most Texans have no experience with it.

What really mystified _me_ is all of the so-called facilities managers who had no idea what to do. Some of the most dramatic media footage after the fact was of commercial and institutional buildings that had severe water damage. I guess they never saw it coming.

The same thing happened in financial services before 2008.

All the risk management departments were eliminated.

When dealing with sprawling, complex organizations you get what you don't pay for.

This is why ServiceMaster pivoted to remediation, disaster recovery and smoke removal in their business model. Nobody signed up for actual maintenance plans.

[John Stankus]

Yesterday it was 79 F (21 C) a week prior 12 F (-11 C) here in San Antonio. There are shutoff valves at the water meter. The issue is that some folks don't know where their meter is, or they don't have the proper wrench. The apartment complexes may have the shutoffs where the tenants can't get to them.

I can shutoff at the street, and I have put in a shutoff by the water softener. So I am able to shut things down if necessary. There are just a lot of folks who never deal with their home's systems themselves and are left to get someone to come in to do it for them.

We had something like 107 hours below freezing. 3 days or so without power. (the Joy of deregulation )

John (thankful it is warmer this week)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The problem with water lines freezing and breaking is a little complicated. Here where I live, because the area can see subzero weather, our water lines are typically buried 4' underground. So, normally water lines buried that deep won't freeze. Then potentially they could still freeze within a unheated/uninhabited house. Even in heated houses when weather gets extremely cold local residents will leave a faucet dripping overnight to keep water moving and not freezing within the structure. In the mountainous areas nearby where it regularly gets below freezing, those with homes not regularly occupied will have a waste/drain valve inside that is below the lowest point in the house. Closing this valve shuts off the water and drains the waterlines within the home. These same people will shut off their water heaters when they are not staying in the home. For example, a friend has a home in the mountains he and his family only use in the winter when skiing and in the summer to escape the heat. They shut the waste/drain valve and shut off the water heater every time they leave the home for the season. It prevents the water lines from freezing and they don't have unnecessary expenses of paying for unused heated water.

As pointed out by Dave in an earlier post, a lot of people don't know where the waste/drain valve for their domestic water is located. Our water shutoff is located in an underground vault with a manhole cover near the street. Our irrigation waste/drain valve for our untreated irrigation water is located in a different vault with a manhole cover. Though our irrigation waterline is buried at a 4' level it comes up to a 1" level at the two control boxes I installed and in which I placed the sprinkler system control valves. I shut this irrigation water waste/drain valve each fall, it drains the lines to the control valves and then I have the sprinkler lines blown out with a commercial air compressor so the sprinkler lines don't freeze during the winter.

[Jerry Bruette]

Simply because they don't know what they don't know. If you've never dealt with those types of temperatures you aren't aware of the consequences.

[George Yetka]

the other problem is some of these breaks are before the valve.

Most codes call for underground pipe to be buried below the frost line but a place like texas probably has a shallow frost line. A freeze like they just got may have caused some of these to freeze and crack/split as well.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

the other problem is some of these breaks are before the valve.

Most codes call for underground pipe to be buried below the frost line but a place like texas probably has a shallow frost line. A freeze like they just got may have caused some of these to freeze and crack/split as well.

The frost line variation can cause problems. One of our friends sold their local home and moved to Tucson, AZ. He was shocked to find just digging in his yard to remove a dead tree he hit the incoming water line.

[Jerry Bruette]

the other problem is some of these breaks are before the valve.

Most codes call for underground pipe to be buried below the frost line but a place like texas probably has a shallow frost line. A freeze like they just got may have caused some of these to freeze and crack/split as well.

Being below the normal frost line is no guarantee of safety either. If those lines happen to go under a driveway or a road the frost can be driven deeper than normal. Cities around here will typically have one or two water main breaks every winter. I've already seen frozen septic systems if we don't have enough snow cover before the sub zero temps. hit.

[John Stankus]

Frost line... not in San Antonio

Our all time record for time below freezing is 109 hours (last week was a close second). When you are not below freezing for very many hours in a year, the ground does not freeze.

The line to my water meter is maybe a foot down if I'm lucky, But he meter and the pipe connecting it are exposed in a little hole with a metal cover.meter.jpg Actually looking at the picture it may be a bit less than a foot deep. Shut off is adjacent to the meter.

When you deal with that level of cold once a decade, those coping skills are not developed (practiced).

It would be nice to have a drain for the system (or at least for the outside faucets, which can be at risk even in our normal brief freezing spells)

John

[Jim Koepke]

the other problem is some of these breaks are before the valve.

Most codes call for underground pipe to be buried below the frost line but a place like texas probably has a shallow frost line. A freeze like they just got may have caused some of these to freeze and crack/split as well.

It amazes me how many people do not know where the street shut off or the house shut off valve are located.

Another problem is some places might not have "freeze line" codes. Then there is the problem of builders not bothering to follow the codes.

One of the problems experienced in Texas is a lot of the natural gas lines are above ground. The moisture in the gas freezes and clogs the lines.

Many places were windmills are used for power generation have heaters in them. Texas power companies didn't think they would need them.

Even the coal fired power plants had problems with the coal storage piles freezing.

Of course the politicians made excuses and even blamed things that have nothing to do with the real problem trying to cover their backsides.

jtk

[Malcolm McLeod]

...
Many places were windmills are used for power generation have heaters in them. Texas power companies didn't think they would need them.

...

I can't speak for turbines on the South TX coastal plains, but TX turbines North and West of the Edwards and up thru the Llano all have heated nacelles.

I watched media reports of all 4" of Snowmagedon, the outages, and doom. Walked outside to await the, uuuhmm, ...end? After awhile I showered and drove to work. Again, not trying to be oblivious to other's plight, but a lot of responders are not in TX and the alphabet media may have overdone it ... just a bit.

[Jim Matthews]

Again, not trying to be oblivious to other's plight

Try harder. That should require very little effort.

...but a lot of responders are not in TX and the alphabet media may have overdone it ... just a bit.

4.5 million in the dark, in houses with no heat is significant.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02...treme-weather/

The only thing you got right is some of the Alphabet people overdid things, although the recipients appear glad outsiders did not remain oblivious to their plight.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ale...weather-crisis