wet sharpening system

[David Walser]

No, just decide the grit and order! Maybe verify the shaft diameter. I called up Ken Rizza and ordered a 600 grit aluminum wheel made for the Tormek. Installed it and put the water tray away. Then later decided I wanted a finer grit so I ordered the 1200. I sometimes dribble some honing fluid (made for diamond hones) on the wheel but not often. Besides occasionally demagnetizing the tools as I mentioned it's exactly like using the stone wheel except it never needs dressed and never gets smaller.

I did not use Rizza's spherical washers that always I use on the bench grinders. (I'm not even sure the set would fit and still leave enough threads for the nut.) However, I did use a precision ground washer on both sides of the wheel. I get no detectable runnout.
...

I'm back to agreeing with John. Swapping the original Tormek wheel for a CBN wheel is super easy. Just take the old wheel off and put the new one on. Unlike John, I didn't use precision ground washers. (I might have, had I had them.) Like John, I get no detectable runout.

In use, the primary differences between the two wheels (other than the water and the fact the CBN wheel remains perfectly flat and never gets smaller) is the speed and the sound. With water, the Tormek makes almost no sound. The hum of the motor is louder than the scratching sound coming from the use of the wheel. With the CBN wheel, the scratching sound is louder than the hum of the motor. While using the CBN wheels is louder than using the original wet stone, it's still a quiet process. No hearing protection required.

[Reed Gray]

I have had my Tormek for maybe 30 years now. The only thing I use it for is the leather honing wheel, which I use on my skew chisels, and some times kitchen knives. If I was going to start using it for my skew chisels, I would get one of the diamond wheels. Spendy, but they never wear out. I would guess that the CBN wheels would last far longer on the Tormek than on standard slow speed grinders, which for production work is 5 or so years, though I need to experiment with that Slick Stick that Ken Rizza sells for cleaning the wheels. Like others have said, the slow speed water wheels are lousy for shaping. When I need to seriously reshape my tools, I have a 36 grit belt sander. As far as I am concerned, the only time I need really fine grinding stones/wheels is for bench chisels, carving chisels, and plane irons, well, the skew also.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

I have had my Tormek for maybe 30 years now. The only thing I use it for is the leather honing wheel, which I use on my skew chisels, and some times kitchen knives. If I was going to start using it for my skew chisels, I would get one of the diamond wheels. Spendy, but they never wear out. I would guess that the CBN wheels would last far longer on the Tormek than on standard slow speed grinders, which for production work is 5 or so years, though I need to experiment with that Slick Stick that Ken Rizza sells for cleaning the wheels. Like others have said, the slow speed water wheels are lousy for shaping. When I need to seriously reshape my tools, I have a 36 grit belt sander. As far as I am concerned, the only time I need really fine grinding stones/wheels is for bench chisels, carving chisels, and plane irons, well, the skew also.

robo hippy

Something you might do if not: I put a foot pedal on my Tormek which makes it so handy to turn on and off. I too use the leather wheel and leather profile wheels a lot.

The CBN does last longer at slow speed on the Tormek than on a bench grinder. But diamond would be better. Diamond cuts better than CBN but diamond can't take the heat of high speed when grinding steel. Should be fine on the Tormek, though. I don't know the price difference between CBN and diamond.

When Ken started selling CBN honing plates I thought that was crazy. You don't develop heat with a honing plate. I bought some, then later ordered some made with diamond abrasive.

I have a a lubricant similar to the Slick Stick I've used for years. Bought it from Lennox.

JKJ

[Alex Zeller]

I have the Grizzly clone with a 600 grit diamond Tormek wheel. The set up works fine for me but, like others have said, it's only useful for touching up tools. I made several set up jigs so I can quickly set up tools like my bowl gouge. The real problem is that unless you have a grinder with the same size wheel and the means to use the Tormek jigs you'll most likely have to do your initial shaping on the wet grinder. That'll mean a lot of time doing something that's about as boring as can be.

There's plenty of people here who have multiple grinders and lots of wheels but for those who are not as invested who have to live with just one I'm not sure if my first one would be a Tormek (or clone) again. If new to sharpening and turning I think I would go with a 1hp slow speed grinder with a CBN wheel. With that set up you can use a regular grinding wheel (not expensive) to do the rough shaping and then the CBN to finish it off and for touching up. Then with experience I would switch over to a CBN wheel exclusively.

[John K Jordan]

...I'm not sure if my first one would be a Tormek ... If new to sharpening and turning I think I would go with a 1hp slow speed grinder with a CBN wheel. With that set up you can use a regular grinding wheel (not expensive) to do the rough shaping and then the CBN to finish it off and for touching up. Then with experience I would switch over to a CBN wheel exclusively.

I agree with you on this. I had bench grinders long before the Tormek and sharpened everything I needed for the lathe. The Tormek let me sharpen some things better but I'd give up the Tormek in a heartbeat before I gave up the bench grinders.

....The real problem is that unless you have a grinder with the same size wheel and the means to use the Tormek jigs you'll most likely have to do your initial shaping on the wet grinder. That'll mean a lot of time doing something that's about as boring as can be.

I sort of disagree with this based on experience. I use the Tormeks jigs with both the 8" wheels on the bench grinder and the 10" wheels on the Tormek. Those times I've shaped a tool on the 8" wheel then took it to the 10" wheel for sharpening I didn't experience a big problem. Yes, it does take a little time to go from the 4" radius hollow grind to the 5" radius but when I did this the bevel was close enough to sharpen quickly. The big problem of removing a huge amount of metal when reshaping was done leaving the much smaller problem is changing the shallow concavity of the bevel. It actually surprised me how quick it was to sharpen.

To understand why this could be, I made some chord/arc calculations. If I did the calculations right, with, for example, a 1/4" wide bevel (chord width), the difference in arc heights between 4" radius and 5" radius was less than 0.0004", the amount which needed to be removed by the 10" wheel on both the edge and the heel. Since the center of the hollow ground bevel for the larger radius is air, the actual volume of material to be ground away (at the edge and heel) was very small.. It would be more for for a wider bevel, of course - I think about 0.0005 needed to be removed for a .3" bevel. Technically the chord length would change, but only a tiny bit. (someone else should double-check this calculation)

But if even that small amount was a downside to someone who wanted to go this route, perhaps a Tormek with an 8"' wheel would be attractive. I've never tried one, though.

Having the means to use the Tormek jigs on the bench grinder is a different issue. Soon after I got the Tormek I simply mounted an extra Tormek support bar next to the bench grinder so I could use the jigs.

However, even when I didn't use those jigs but instead used the Wolverine/Varigrind jigs for shaping with a different grinder (with a 60 grit 8" CBN wheel) I don't' remember transitioning to the Tormek for the final sharpening taking an unpleasant amount of time. (NOTHING like the first time I regrind a big oval skew on the Tormek - I thought I was going to die of old age before it was done.) Now that I've got the tools I use the most pretty much shaped as I want them I haven't used that method in a while.

JKJ

[Alex Zeller]

I only have a small high speed grinder with 6" wheels so I've done everything on my wet grinder. Removing the factory grind and to get to a grind that can be repeated took a very long time. I think the OP has the right idea about buying all of the jigs up front vs trying to do it by hand. Trying to remove an uneven hand grind on a Tormek can be maddening (don't ask how I know, lol). Also I don't see a reason why anyone would put a CBN wheel on a wet grinder vs going with a diamond wheel. The main advantage of a CBN is that they work on a regular grinder so you can take advantage of the speed.

[David Walser]

... Also I don't see a reason why anyone would put a CBN wheel on a wet grinder vs going with a diamond wheel. The main advantage of a CBN is that they work on a regular grinder so you can take advantage of the speed.

CBN wheels are better suited for sharpening steel than are diamond wheels. Yes, diamond is harder than CBN (by not a lot). However, diamond goes through a chemical change in contact with steel that weakens the diamond, causing diamond's perfect crystalline structure to crumble. As John suggested above, this chemical process is greatly accelerated by heat. For this reason, if you use a diamond wheel on a Tormek you should use the water bath. Yes, a Tormek's 90rpm speed will produce a lot less heat than would a diamond wheel on a slow-speed bench grinder, but it will still produce enough heat to cause the diamond wheel to wear out prematurely if it is used dry. (Tormek now produces diamond wheels in three grits. The company recommends using them wet to prevent premature wheel wear.)

So it's a choice: Use a CBN wheel, and put up with the dust or use a diamond wheel and put up with the annoyances of using water. The annoyances of using water with a diamond wheel are greater than with using Tormek's standard wheels. Tormek's diamond wheels are made from steel with a diamond coating. Steel rusts. For this reason, Tormek sells an additive for use in the water bath. The additive will reduce rusting, but it is an additional hassle and expense. (Of course, you can use the diamond wheel dry -- but it will wear out fairly quickly. How quickly 'fairly quickly' equates to will depend on your use. For most hobbyist turners, I would suspect you could get a few years out of it.)

To answer your question: This particular wet grinder owner went with a CBN wheel AFTER Tormek started selling its diamond wheels. I did it because I preferred using the wheel dry and wanted the wheel to last basically forever.

[John K Jordan]

... Also I don't see a reason why anyone would put a CBN wheel on a wet grinder vs going with a diamond wheel. The main advantage of a CBN is that they work on a regular grinder so you can take advantage of the speed.

I agree, diamond would have been my first choice. Can't remember which but I got CBN because an appropriate diamond wheel was too expensive or not available at the time. I think things are different now.

[Brad Whitham]

Stephen White.......

"I got there by seeing the Tormek at Rockler. At $430 I was grumbling -/....."

Hi Stephen,
I've used my Tormek for 12 years, and it set me back plenty, too. It has rarely met a blade or plane iron it can't make right. By that I mean "see-thru shavings" if I like (and I usually do). Particularly after springing the extra for the many possible attachments (I did that as I needed them) correct for a specific purpose. Some of these work better than others, but they all get the job done. Now, I also have a very beefy 8" bench grinder as well. Both machines definitely have their place. The Tormek ends up paying for itself on my finer tools.... after I get past the learning curve on each surface I wish to sharpen. Yes, the tool runs slowly and takes a while to get the bevel just the way I like it. But the real deal maker is that the speed that I have developed to accurately carve, plane, chisel, etc. has also about doubled over this time. That adds up fast at the cash register. Even better, my joy in making shavings has about tripled. Bonus! I can't say anything about the other brands. I don't know about any of them.... never needed to.
Good luck with your decision.

[Stephen White]

Stephen White.......

"I got there by seeing the Tormek at Rockler. At $430 I was grumbling -/....."

Hi Stephen,
I've used my Tormek for 12 years, and it set me back plenty, too. It has rarely met a blade or plane iron it can't make right. By that I mean "see-thru shavings" if I like (and I usually do). Particularly after springing the extra for the many possible attachments (I did that as I needed them) correct for a specific purpose. Some of these work better than others, but they all get the job done. Now, I also have a very beefy 8" bench grinder as well. Both machines definitely have their place. The Tormek ends up paying for itself on my finer tools.... after I get past the learning curve on each surface I wish to sharpen. Yes, the tool runs slowly and takes a while to get the bevel just the way I like it. But the real deal maker is that the speed that I have developed to accurately carve, plane, chisel, etc. has also about doubled over this time. That adds up fast at the cash register. Even better, my joy in making shavings has about tripled. Bonus! I can't say anything about the other brands. I don't know about any of them.... never needed to.
Good luck with your decision.

Thanks! Ya know I did stick with the Rikon wet sharpener (same brand as my lathe) but bought all the Tormek Jigs so I feel pretty good about it. I bought the Sorbey 8 tool set for long term and also a set of PSI Bens. I spent some time looking around and in the process saw a bunch of ground down tools from folks like me that don't know how to sharpen. At $300 the Sorbey's are not super high end but I read some good reviews about them and supposedly if taken care of should last me a long time. I wanted to have a more entry level $10 a tool set to learn on and the PSI's also got OK reviews for learning on. HF sells some a $25 set but thought that might be going a little to cheap. Hopefully they will last me long enough to get the hang of sharpening and maybe even be a sharp backup during sessions down the road. The two sets don't share the exact sizes but do share the types.