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Thread: Just got a shaper, need advice!

  1. #1

    Just got a shaper, need advice!

    Hi everyone,

    I recently ordered a Robland NX410 combination machine, which includes a slding table saw, jointer/planer, and a shaper that I am eager to start using. That being said, ive never used a shaper and am a bit terrified. I have a couple questions regarding the usage of it:

    1. The shaper spindle is 30mm, which makes it hard to find cutters in the US that size. I see that I can get 1.25" cutters and metal sleeves to adapt it to 30mm, however the Robland manual says not to do this. Does anyone else have experience using adapters on shapers to reduce the bore? Is it safe to do this?

    2. I would love to get this Amana adjustable groover. I am looking to use it mostly for cutting tenons and grooves. Robland sells a specific table for tenoning, but it is quite heavy and an extra $400. Can I get by with just clamping stock to the fence on the sliding table?
    https://www.toolstoday.com/v-9080-61343.html

    3. Any other things I should be aware of/consider when it comes to set up and safety?

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    i have that amana groover. it's a nice cutter. if i were to do it over again, i'd probably get the Rangate instead of the amana, but the amana is fine.

    can you replace the spindle with a true 1.25"?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Port au Port, NL, Canada
    Posts
    38
    Most shaper cutter manufacturers supply bushings to install large bore cutters on a smaller spindle. Check with your supplier or go on-line to research reputable cutter manufacturers, Leuco, Freud, Amanatool, Gladu, FS Tool, Freeborn, CMT, Rengate, etc.
    I have used them over the last 30 years from time to time with no problems, just remember an under powered machine is a dangerous one.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Moore View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I recently ordered a Robland NX410 combination machine, which includes a slding table saw, jointer/planer, and a shaper that I am eager to start using. That being said, ive never used a shaper and am a bit terrified. I have a couple questions regarding the usage of it:

    1. The shaper spindle is 30mm, which makes it hard to find cutters in the US that size. I see that I can get 1.25" cutters and metal sleeves to adapt it to 30mm, however the Robland manual says not to do this. Does anyone else have experience using adapters on shapers to reduce the bore? Is it safe to do this?

    2. I would love to get this Amana adjustable groover. I am looking to use it mostly for cutting tenons and grooves. Robland sells a specific table for tenoning, but it is quite heavy and an extra $400. Can I get by with just clamping stock to the fence on the sliding table?
    https://www.toolstoday.com/v-9080-61343.html

    3. Any other things I should be aware of/consider when it comes to set up and safety?

    Thank you!
    Hi Sean, welcome to the world of shapers! This book is absolutely essential, and the most modern one available: https://amzn.to/2NgbSRb

    It will open your eyes to so many things you can do with your machine, you'll be blown away.

    Adapters are very common and used all the time, but it's hard to say without knowing the machine whether or not Robland has a specific reason for suggesting this. Can you take a picture of the spindle and post? That said, 30mm bore is extremely common from European manufacturers such as Amana, Whitehill, Axminster, Leuoco, Trend etc.

    I would suggest chip limiting tooling, especially for a newbie, and lower production shops are extremely well suited for a 40mm euroblock that accepts cheap HSS knives that allow an infinite variety of profiles with very good results. Your most used block will probably be a rebate block and depending on what you are doing, the adjustable groover may be next. I personally find the models that allow 4-15mm grooves the most versatile but they're also very expensive. All of these are one-time investments though.

    Good luck and have fun!

    B
    Last edited by brent stanley; 02-18-2021 at 7:57 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Wayland, MA
    Posts
    2,540
    A power feeder makes tremendous sense on a shaper. It's pretty much the only way I will use mine after a few flying wood incidents. Safety aside, the cutting consistency is much better.

    I haven't really looked, but a significant fraction of all the shapers in the world use a 30mm bore, I can't imagine the tooling is that hard to come by. Amana cutters certainly come that way.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    886
    30mm tooling is usually a bit cheaper (than the same 1.25" ordered from a US reseller) if ordered directly from Europe

    You would likely want the tenoning table, you will need a sled or home built apparatus to allow clamping and maintain 90 degrees in order to tenon/cope

    Get a power feeder, its just better all around if you can powerfeed things.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ouray Colorado
    Posts
    1,024
    Personally I would stay with the 30mm shaft. It might take a bit longer to get tooling in this size here but it is the norm in the rest of the world. I believe Felder US stocks this size and maybe some others. With 30mm you can run 1.25 cutters with bushings and if your fence measures tooling either mechanically or digitally the mm shafts are easier to use especially with European tooling that is supplied with drawings and measurements.
    I have a collection of tooling from 45 years in the business so I have a lot of 1.25 tooling still used and occasionally buy US made brazed tooling. Any new tools I buy from Europe will be either 30 or 40 or 50mm depending on diameter. I have a 1.25 shaft for one of my shapers that will change in less than a minute but still use top hat bushings for short runs. I don’t think you will have any problems running with bushings.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    10,398
    Hi Sean, most of the tooling in the world is 30mm, you will have no problems ordering tooling in that diameter.

    I have a mix of 30mm and 1.25" tooling because I have 2 spindle sizes on my shaper. My saw also has a 30mm arbour so it allows me to share a blade or groover (dado) between the saw and shaper.

    Most of my 30mm tooling I bought from Felder when they have sales, which happen once or twice a year. Erik loza is a Felder rep and Sawmill Creek member who could help you with that.

    I have the tenon table for my shaper and use it for tenons because my groover does not fit below the table. I use an adjustable groover that cuts a groove or both faces of the tenon at once.

    https://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-U...ers-RB-HW.html

    https://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-U...param=04.3.036

    For tooling there are 2 classifications everywhere except NA, they are MAN for manual feeding which have chip limiters and reduced risk of kickback. There is also MECH which are for mechanical feeding only.

    I suggest you purchase a stock feeder, 1/2 HP is fine for your size machine.

    This book is the only up to date shaper manual I have found, all the North American manuals are decades out of date with respect to safety.

    https://www.amazon.ca/Spindle-Moulde.../dp/0854421505

    Have fun, the shaper is a much used piece of machinery in my hobby shop...........Rod.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Brighton, CO
    Posts
    81
    Sean - all good advice above, but if you have never used a shaper, look at alpineworkshops.com run by Joe Calhoon - they have a 4 day shaper and woodworking class that would help you learn about shapers - I have been to the window class and got a lot out of it
    Last edited by John P Clark; 02-19-2021 at 9:35 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quorn United Kingdom
    Posts
    618
    I purchased a Lurem 310 multifunction woodworking machine many years ago and the shaper was the function of the machine I was most hesitant to use
    The approach I took was
    (1) Attended a one day course provided by Record power the supplier ( the machine was made by Lurem, sold by Record and sprayed green with a Record livery)
    It would be worth exploring if any suppliers provide training on the use of your machine
    (2) I contacted a local Technical college which ran courses on machine safety and spent an afternoon with a trainer
    (3) I identified a training video for a similar machine that Matebo the company which I believe took over the distribution of Lurem machines provided
    (4) Identify if there are any trade shows were your machine or similar product is being demonstrated ,attend and if possible video the presentation on your phone particularly the function and safety aspects of the shaper
    (5) The content of this link may be helpful
    https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis18.pdf
    and the associated links

    (6) Purchased the book
    Spindle Moulder Handbook 2nd Edition


    Other I identified a number of videos on YouTube for my machine which were in French but I was able to change the Settings to subtitles to English


    Please note I live in the Uk but I hope the general outline of the approach I took helps
    Last edited by Brian Deakin; 02-20-2021 at 8:35 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Deakin View Post
    I purchased a Lurem 310 multifunction woodworking machine many years ago and the shaper was the function of the machine I was most hesitant to use
    The approach I took was
    (1) Attended a one day course provided by Record power the supplier ( the machine was made by Lurem, sold by Record and sprayed green with a Record livery)
    It would be worth exploring if any suppliers provide training on the use of your machine
    (2) I contacted a local Technical college which ran courses on machine safety and spent an afternoon with a trainer
    (3) I identified a training video for the machine that Matebo the company which I believe took over the distribution of Lurem machines provided
    (4) Purchased the book
    Spindle Moulder Handbook 2nd Edition

    Other I identified a number of videos on YouTube for my machine which were in French but I was able to set the subtitles to English


    Please note I live in the Uk but I hope the general outline of the approach I took helps
    I was lucky enough to train with an instructor in the UK many years ago, but unfortunately opportunities like that are few and far between in North America.

  12. #12
    Thanks everyone for the advice! Im going to look into getting the spindle moulder handbook. Im really only interested in cutting tenons and grooves with the shaper, hence me wanting to pick up the amana adjustable groover. Ill see if I can find one thats 30mm!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    10,398
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Moore View Post
    Thanks everyone for the advice! Im going to look into getting the spindle moulder handbook. Im really only interested in cutting tenons and grooves with the shaper, hence me wanting to pick up the amana adjustable groover. Ill see if I can find one thats 30mm!
    Sean, the groover I illustrated can be inverted to cut both sides of the tenon simultaneously, you might consider something like that...Rod

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