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Thread: The gang that couldn't saw straight

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    How high do you mount the board, from the floor?

    When you have your cutting hand parallel to the floor, with your elbow tucked in at 90 degrees (shake hands position) - how high is your hand off the floor?

    While my dovetails aren't great, my best ones come when the board is a little higher than my neutral (shake hands) position.

    ****
    I try to only cut lines I can see, first from the top rear corner down to the front baseline - then down the back side away from me.

    My *best* dovetails still require paring.

    It's not you, these are a fiddly PITA for the first hundred or so.
    Jim (you are also an encourager): My elbow is 46” off the floor. The top of my Moxon vise is 40 1/2" up. I put the board in 2 to 3 inches above the vise top, so that puts it 3 or 4 inches below my elbow. So according to your advice, I'd be better served by having the board about 4 to 5 inches higher. I have considered that and my plan has been to get to your recommended position by spreading my feet and leaning into the cut. At that position I think my arm is slightly below the top of the board.

    This is wrapped up in the general topic of body position, also picked up by Justin and his video, Curt, Bill (especially), and William. I'll try to take these notions to heart: standing off to the left and keeping my elbow in plane. Sounds very useful, and I'm glad I paid my 2¢.
    Last edited by Bob Jones 5443; 02-14-2021 at 5:50 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Imho proper work holding and light and height comes before learning to saw straight. Can u describe your set up?
    Prashun, I hope I've said enough about my setup in the vise. I cut these in the daytime with full light streaming in from a window directly above the bench, but I also have dog-hole-mounted LED goosenecks on both sides at other times of the day. I also always use them for chiseling.

  3. #18
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    The plumb debate lives!

    This surges onward between Al and Derek. In my case I do set the pin board at the vertical. (A lot of good it's done me so far!)

    For tails (I confess) I use a magnetic guide for the right sides (I'm right handed), and the board is approximately vertical. For the left sides of the tails I flip the board so the other cuts are done from the right side of the guide. I haven't had trouble with tail cuts, because I carve deep into the end with my marking knife, the guide is my crutch, my fancy-schmancy saw does cut straight, and the actual angle just gets transferred to the pins anyway.

    Now onward through the advice. I saved the best two for last (no criticism intended for the others).
    Last edited by Bob Jones 5443; 02-14-2021 at 3:09 PM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Bob, and all those wanting to saw "straight" ...

    Some might argue it is about developing a sense of plumb. To some extent this is correct, but then what about dovetail angles? I have read advice to angle the board so that the line is plumb. I consider that this misses the mark. Even Rob Cosman makes a big deal out of squaring the board to be sawn. I prefer that the board is square as well, but this will not help you in the important area.

    What is the secret? Actually, it is quite simple, and it goes for tenon cheeks and shoulders as well. In fact, it goes for ALL sawing.

    When we mark out Tails or cheeks (or whatever), we draw the line across the top and then down the sides. You will always saw straight if you saw two lines at the same time! Saw the top of the tail board lightly, and run the teeth over the side to the following line.

    First this ...







    .. then drop the saw ...



    Curt's recommendation of the Kerf Starter is a good one (photos below from a review I wrote some years ago). I just score the line (or use a pencil), but eventually you will develop a sense of "square".





    This can really help start a saw and reduce the concern that forces you to watch the top line and not both lines simultaneously.



    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Ever reliable with trenchant technique wisdom, here comes Derek in my hour of need.

    Cut along two lines! While this plays mischief with the height-of-arm-off-the-floor concept, it seems a logical way to avoid my Problem No. 2. That will be running through my mind in the next set of practice cuts.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    One item no one has mentioned through all of this......your ( in my case..Left) thumb.....why buy some fancy guide....when you were born with a guide. Thumbnail at the line, knuckle against the saw's plate....By adjusting how close or far from a 90 degree thumb goes....THAT will be the angle the saw will follow.....When you get the saw far enough down into the kerf, to where the plate will follow it, you can then move the thumb away.....Can't bend the knuckle far enough to the far side of 90 degrees....turn the board around. You can also easily tell when you go "off line"....you will start cutting into your thumb....hurts, don't it? Teaches you not to do that again....

    Fingers of the "guide hand"? just wrap them over the board, to support the thumb...

    Also, after the first one or two short "starter strokes" .....use the full length of the saw plate for the rest of the cut....be surprised how few strokes you will need to do ( 8 full strokes should get you to 3/4" depth)

    You PAID for a 12-14" long saw....use the entire length....evens the wear out on those hard to see teeth....

    back to saw work...
    Attachment 452245

    I do cheat a bit, though...
    Attachment 452246
    When doing an angled cut, like a 45 miter cut...
    Attachment 452247
    Comes in handy, when doing Mitered Half Lap joints....
    Attachment 452248

    At least the 2 beads will line up...YMMV
    Gotta say, that thumbnail/knuckle talk hits home. I'll carry this into the shop for sure.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Jones 5443 View Post
    Gotta say, that thumbnail/knuckle talk hits home. I'll carry this into the shop for sure.
    Any progress?
    What works (and what dinnit) might be good for the next shmoe with similar struggles.

  7. #22
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    Steven’s thumbnail/knuckle approach seemed to work for me yesterday, especially when starting the cut. I cut 12 dovetails and ended up with a decent looking box. A box was not my intention, but some days, I just need to build a box.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    Any progress?
    What works (and what dinnit) might be good for the next shmoe with similar struggles.
    Jim (and others), I appreciate the interest. This week I had to clear the deck for a trip out of state to visit my son. Four clients crammed into yesterday and flight today. Alas, I’ll be out of the shop until next week. I’ll regenerate this thread with feedback on Steven’s and Derek’s suggestions once I have results.

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