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Thread: wood turning

  1. #1

    wood turning

    I am getting a lathe to learn on.

    I have a tendency to shoot high financially but thinking of an inexpensive benchtop to start

    Would appreciate any advice. I started to get a Jet but it was almost a grand after shipping and tax and if I do that then that's my lathe for the foreseeable future. By contrast HF has a 12/34 3/4 HP on a stand for $400 and a benchtop 12x15 for $225. Do any of you that use these have both a bench top and a larger one or would you recommend just getting a larger one from the start?

  2. #2
    My sincere suggestion is to look for a turner near you willing to serve as a mentor for a few hours on their lathe. A bigger lathe can turn smaller items, but the converse is not true. Often see posts on turning forums of people buying a 2nd or sometimes a 3rd lathe to be able to turn longer table legs or larger diameter bowls, or both.

    But certainly a benchtop can provide some experience working on a lathe.

    The next question will be how much to spend on lathe tools - inexpensive tools need sharpening more often.

    Which leads to the third question, how to sharpen.

    All can be expensive.

    Perhaps you can find a two day or one week course near you that can provide a more in depth experience. The "hobby" is expensive when everything is added together.

  3. #3
    I had the small HF lathe and then upgraded to a used jet 1014....the difference in quality and smoothness was very very noticeable. I would look for used quality lathes on Craigslist/Facebook mktplace. Depending on where you live you might find one relatively quickly (fot better luck you could contact the local club and ask if anyone is selling).
    Good luck.
    Tom

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    The only good reason I know to get a cheap lathe is if someone is really not sure that they will be interested in turning for the long run. Don's suggestion is excellent. I've had beginners come to my shop and after spending time on some training sessions and learning the basics some did well and were happy with the experience but might never take up turning, while others came back over and over, jumping in and acquiring a lathe of their own as soon as possible. Not only will a mentor teach you the basics, you will learn about different tools (and how to sharpen them) before spending a bundle on expensive things you might not use much.

    Without the chance to get some experience on someone's lathe first, I'd recommend getting a used lathe, possibly an older one. Any lathe will let you turn wood and see if turning is for you. If you decide it's not, you can probably sell a used one for about what you paid for it.

    If you can't find a teacher/mentor or a class right away (this pandemic has limited things) another thing to do is join a local woodturning club. Many clubs are still not meeting personally but some, like the one in Knoxville, have online zoom meetings with demonstrations, questions and answers, etc. A club can put you in touch with people you can call and some which can provide wood, often free.

    If you are a visual learner there are youtube videos. The problem is some are BAD and some are REALLY BAD but how would you know? One way is to join the AAW (American Association of Woodturners) which provides a portal to the best videos, videos determined not only to be useful but teach safe techniques. The AAW also has tremendous online printed teaching resources for beginners available to members. There may still be trial memberships available.

    If you are a reader, consider some books. I personally got a good start on woodturning from two books, Fundamentals of Woodturning by Mike Darlow and Turning Wood by Richard Raffan. In my opinion a good book is far better than a video - it can hold so much more information and easily explain the tradeoffs between multiple options. About twenty years later my woodturning library is overflowing!

    BTW, I started with the absolute worst lathe in the world. It wasn't long before I decided I liked woodturning so gave the first one away and spent a couple of thousand on a far, far better lathe. Sometime after that I spent twice that much and got an even better lathe. It's not all about the diameter or length of the piece the lathe can handle, to me it's more the smoothness, the controls, the variable speed and reverse, the more massive weight, and the sturdiness of things like the headstock spindle and bearings, the banjo and tailstock, locking levers, and more. But although the lathe I use now is a real dream to use, I would NOT recommend someone new to turning go buy one before he was certain to be in it for the long haul. If money is not a problem, then by all means get the better one to start with!

    JKJ

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    sykesville, maryland
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    The advice already given is spot-on. It you really want to do this hobby, be forewarned, it's not cheap. I would suggest maybe the Rikon 70-220 VSR as a lot of bang for the buck. Anything cheaper/smaller and you are likely not going to be satisfied. Then chisels. A basic set might be 3/8" spindle gouge, 1/2" bowl gouge, 1/8" parting tool, and either a spindle roughing gouge or a 1" skew. So that's 4 tools that you'll need to spend $250 or more on. Then you need to sharpen: Grinder with AO wheels ~$200. The cheaper the chisels the more time you'll spend sharpening. So that's the bare minimum. You can opt for carbide tools and you can forgo the grinder, but most would say the carbides don't leave as nice a finish and are somewhat "limiting". So about $1000 minimum price of entry......and then if you really like this hobby you'll be in a few $thousand more at some point.

    A good "forever" entry-level lathe is the new Powermatic 2014. It has the advantage of running on 110V power. Another nice tabletop is the Harvey T-40. Or the Laguna 15/24. These lathes are ~$1800 and are considered "affordable". There are Novas in this price range too. Then next step up would be Laguna 18/36 or Grizzly G0766 at ~$2500. Both a lot of lathe for the money. Then the Powermatic 3520 and Harvey T60 at ~$4000. Then to the Cadillac's: Robust, One-way, Vicmarc, Powermatic 4224. These are more than $6000.

    There are Jet lathes in most of these categories too.

    Eventually you'll want more chisels, chucks, faceplates, toolrests, and on and on. Swirl.....
    Last edited by tom lucas; 02-08-2021 at 10:24 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Cumberland, Maryland
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    Finding a local turner and or club would be an excellent starting point. Check out your local Craigslist also.
    You only need 2 tools in life. If it's supposed to move and doesn't... use WD40. If it moves and shouldn't... use duct tape.

  7. #7
    Lots of great advice, thanks! John touched on why I will likely get a smaller benchtop to start as I really don't know if wood turning is going to be part of the routine or not. 2k for the saw and 2k for the drum sander made sense because they were upgrades to tools that get used from project to project. The CNC covered a need. Wood turning is another skill to develop and then produce a product from that.

    My shop is pottery and wood so I am adding small items that I take to shows along side our pottery. Fortunately the easier wood working skills to obtain also produce items that people like to buy at shows, serving boards, cutting boards, currently adding frames for hand pressed/painted art tiles and then the next idea is to add small turned items such as bowls, ring holders, pens etc. I've done a few dozen weekend art shows over the last decade and size does matter The shows themselves are a blast but the setup and tear down can be a real pain and keeping it simple is a big deal. It helps that I like batching stuff. Throwing 50 coffee mugs on the wheel and then pushing them through the process to final glazing is something I enjoy. Lots of folks want to do new one off projects and that's really not my thing. But I am trying to build a viable 2nd act for when I stop doing the day job so its a mix of doing what I enjoy and making money.

    I really appreciate the input. I'm going to bump it up a bit from the really cheap ones and move to the $500 range. I read some good reviews this morning on the shop fox W1836 bench top and the Jet 1015 (I have a Jet drum 18-26 Sander and like it) and the Rikon 70-100 (smaller version of Toms suggestion) but the Jet and Rikon does not have digital and I really want that as a beginner. These are all $500ish so if I need to move on to a more expensive one for better build or additional size or feature it sure seems likely I could get a couple hundred back on the used market or even just keep the benchtop around as a backup or for someone else to bang around on in the shop with me and if turning isn't my thing then its a less expensive dust collector.

  8. #8
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    The danger of testing the waters of turning enjoyment on a cheap little lathe, it that turning on a cheap little lathe is not fun for ANYONE. Unless of course if your goal is to turn pens, then anything that spins will work. If you are tempted by bowls, platters, and hollow forms, the imbalance and fine cuts needed to prevent stalling will put off nearly anyone. I suggest you look for an old Delta floor model. Then you have a machine that can be tested with some weight and you will be able to sell it for what you paid for it. You'll instantly loose money on the HF lathe the minute you leave the door. Old American machinery is so much better than new cheap Chinese. And if your intent is just to test the hobby, what's the hurry?

  9. #9
    Another reason to find the nearest club is that you may be able to find a 'package' deal where some one is getting out of turning and you may be able to get lathe and accessories much cheaper than buying new. I would take the Jet over HF. Quality can make a huge difference in enjoyment, and it also makes for better resale value if you want to get out of it.

    robo hippy

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    sykesville, maryland
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    861
    My experience as a long-time flat work guy who is still fairly new to turning, is this. Turning is more artful than flat work. It is an intimate dance between wood, tools, and human. So if the artful hand is your thing (I'm guessing so if you do pottery), then it might be something you will like, perhaps even addictive as it has been for many of us. And turning projects usually are completed much faster than other ww forms. So gratifications comes faster.

    On the other hand, I know several wood workers that don't care for turning because of the mess. A lot more shaving on the human than any other woodworking form, and quite the mess on the floor while making a project. At first the mess bothered me, but after a while you come to grips with it and just vacuum it up when the cutting is done.

    It also sounds like you want to some limited "production" turning. This is another reason to get as powerful a lathe as you can. Underpowered lathes will slow you down and may even frustrate you to the point of not doing it. Once you get proficient, you can quickly turn out small projects in just minutes if you have a lathe that can keep up. Stuart Batty says he can turn a decent sized bowl from blank to ready for finish in 11 minutes. But then that is Stuart Batty.

    I don't understand why lathes are so much more money than other ww equipment. Other tools seem far more complicated, but that is the way it is. So you have to re-calibrate your cost-benefit balancing a bit with wood turning.

    Another thing to keep in mind is spindle size. Most of the Midis are 1" but the bigger lathes are 1-1/4". Why do you care? Because accessories are made to a specific spindle size. Yes you can use adapters to fit on to the other. But they are less than ideal as they put more strain on your head stock, which is most important the smaller the lathe. So if you move up or down in spindle size, you may be buying new accessories too. I would like a second lathe, but I don't want to buy a whole new set of accessories. I would want one with 8-1/4" spindle. That really drives up the cost for Midis as there are only a few bench-top options in that size.

    Pay once, cry once is sound advise. Going to a club and connecting with fellow turners and trying big and small lathes is by far the best thing you can do before you buy. Turners are usually glad to share their time and experiences with newbees.
    Last edited by tom lucas; 02-09-2021 at 12:06 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Stephen -- You've received a lot of good advice. If you search this forum, you'll see there are a lot of threads on the topic of which lathe to buy. I'll second the recommendation of Rikon's midi-lathe. It's well made and delivers a lot of capability and features for a fair price. There are other good lathes in that size range that are worth a look.

    Let me address the to Harbor Freight lathes you mentioned: I started turning with the larger of the two you mentioned (SKU# 34706). IIRC, I paid less than $120 for it back in 2002 or 2003. I still have it and it has served me well. Still, I would NOT recommend it as anyone's first lathe. The lathe is a clone of an old Jet design (many of the parts are interchangeable). It was and is a decent lathe for spindle turning. With it's pivoting headstock, it can be used for smallish bowls and platters. However, that's NOT its strength. The same was true of the Jet. The lowest speed of the lathe is too fast for larger, out-of-balance blanks. Today, there are several much better lathes available for not a whole lot more money. Time has simply passed by the lathe's design. My lathe has been relegated to a designated buffing station. I also use it, very rarely, for longer spindles. For these tasks, the lathe is in it's sweet spot and performs well. However, a newer design would also handle these tasks and provide much more capabilities in other areas, too. Just say no to this lathe.

    I wasn't aware HF made a 12 x 15 lathe. Currently, it's website only mentions a 10 x 18 mini-lathe. The one currently on their website is also a clone of an older Jet design. The design is old. The only way to change speeds is to move the belt from one pulley to another -- which gets tiring very fast. Their are lots of clones of this Jet design, many have variable speed. Of the clones, the HF version was never considered towards the top in terms of quality. Again, this is a HF lathe to avoid.

    I know a lot of people have and like these lathes from HF. As I said, I have one and I like it. But, if I were buying a lathe today, even given a tight budget, it would not be one of these. I'd either find a quality used lathe or a more recently designed new lathe. The HF lathes are clones of designs that were old in 2000. A lot of lathes have been designed, made, and sold since then. Ignoring quality issues, there is no reason to put up with outdated designs in 2021.
    David Walser
    Mesa, Arizona

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by David Walser View Post
    I wasn't aware HF made a 12 x 15 lathe. Currently, it's website only mentions a 10 x 18 mini-lathe. The one currently on their website is also a clone of an older Jet design. The design is old. The only way to change speeds is to move the belt from one pulley to another -- which gets tiring very fast. Their are lots of clones of this Jet design, many have variable speed. Of the clones, the HF version was never considered towards the top in terms of quality. Again, this is a HF lathe to avoid.
    Whoops yeah it is a 10x18. Yeah I am passing on the HF options. Had figured at a couple hundred bucks it would be a good intro but the input here had convinced me to go a bit more so I am looking at the shop fox W1836, Jet 1015 and Rikon 70-100. Also read a good review on the Nova Comet II.

    Actually everyone has pretty much convinced me of the value of just going with a larger more expensive lathe to start but I am crammed into a 2 1/2 car garage that is already full of WW and Pottery equipment and I just spent some time trying to figure out if I can work in a larger lathe and I think the answer really is no so I think I am going to go ahead with a Midi but all of you folks have made me stop and put more thought into the purchase and that's what's so great about this forum. I was impulsively going to go grab a cheap one and some cheap tools for a few hundred total and that sounds like it would be counterproductive.

    I'm going to read reviews on all the Midi's mentioned here and pick one of those but it sounds like if I get into this a larger more expensive one is in my future.

  13. #13
    ha I just realized they moved this from the general tool section to the turners section. I must sound sacrilegious to you folks talking about cheap lathes. Every once in a while someone on one of the main pottery threads I frequent talks about buying a cheap pottery wheel to get started with. Absurd, just get one of the 2k wheels and be done with it, why screw around with some cheap wheel that will probably just make throwing pottery harder, right?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen White View Post
    ...I must sound sacrilegious to you folks talking about cheap lathes. Every once in a while someone on one of the main pottery threads I frequent talks about buying a cheap pottery wheel to get started with. ...
    No, you didn't sound sacrilegious. We get into these 'which lathe' questions a lot. I think everyone understands the desire to save some cash while getting a tool that will get the job done. But, how is someone just getting into turning to know what lathes might serve for a given purpose? I certainly didn't. Several people on this board were recommending "the good HF lathe" (as opposed to the other HF lathe), so I got one. And, it worked well for me. Just not for bowls and such. At the time, I thought the lathe was fine for bowls and believed I just needed more practice. It wasn't until I took a 5-day class at Craft Supplies USA, that I realized it wasn't me, it was the lathe!

    I think you've made a wise decision. The price difference between "the good HF lathe" and a midi-lathe of a more modern design no longer justifies buying the HF. At least, it doesn't to me. Let's say someone was still making a 1920's era car and selling them, new, for less than you could buy a new 2021 model that carried the same number of people. Why would you? Sure, the 1920's design may have been state of the art back then and the car may have been the best car in the world in its day, but it doesn't even have hydraulic brakes!
    David Walser
    Mesa, Arizona

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen White View Post
    ...
    My shop is pottery and wood so I am adding small items that I take to shows along side our pottery....
    Excellent! People I know that work in both pottery and wood are quite good with form. A friend very near me has a great pottery studio with three kilns and a small wood shop off the side. He hasn't don't much wood working for some years but recently started woodturning again. His past woodturning was pretty varied, many bowls, but in starting again last week he turned three legs and made a stool. He is inspired by nature and for the legs he thought of the kelp he saw when scuba diving in the pacific. He's a member of the Southern Highlands guild and I think he did used to display woodturnings along with his pottery.

    In case you are interested, there are some things on his web site. There is a short video we shot of raku pieces coming out of the kiln but I think you need quicktime to play it. AFAIK, Paul makes the largest raku-fired pottery in the world. (Sorry if I posted this earlier - I'm elderly and feeble minded...)
    http://www.paulmenchhofer.com/gallery.html
    Paul-Menchhofer.jpg
    Pics in the workshop section give a hint of the scale of some pieces. I am fortunate to have one of his smallish pieces in my piano room.
    http://www.paulmenchhofer.com/workshop.html

    JKJ

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