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Thread: Dust collection with limited power and space

  1. #1

    Dust collection with limited power and space

    I have been getting by with a shopvac in small garage workshop, but my new Sawstop CNS table saw has pushed me over the edge - I think it's time for me to get something that can collect dust better. But each time I look into this, I'm shocked by how large and power-hungry a good dust collector can be.

    My biggest challenge is that I don't have much power or space. The space as a whole is about 10ft by 8ft, with a ceiling at 89 inches.

    I have two "slots" of space - one is about 23in x 20in (but would block access to my lumber rack). The other is about 55in x 24in (but would have to be blocked in by other tools). But in general, all my tools are on wheels - I push them against a wall and wheel them out when I use them.

    I have these circuits, with these tools:

    • 30A 230V circuit
      • Bandsaw (12.8A, according to the motor)
      • Jointer (10.5A, according to the motor)

    • 20A 115V circuit
      • Table saw (14A)
      • Mortiser (5A)
      • Lunchbox planer (15A)

    • 20A 115V circuit
      • A few LED lights
      • Doesn't have any outlets



    There is no way at all I can add another circuit - my house's panel is maxed out, and I live in a pretty dense urban area. Upgrading my panel would require upgrading my service, which would cost over $10k according to two different electricians' quotes - long story short, my power comes from above ground in a way that's no longer permitted, so a lot would need to change. So - no way I can add another circuit, really.

    Okay, finally, a question - what's a good dust collector here? My budget is $2,000. If it takes 230V power, I think it needs to draw relatively few amps so that I don't trip the breaker when I run it with the bandsaw. It seems better to run it on the lights' circuit, but that means it has to be 115V.

    Everybody seems to say cyclones are way, way better than single-stage dust collectors, but they're pretty big. Are there smaller-sized ones that might fit, and could live on my lighting circuit? I looked pretty closely at the Oneida Supercell (even though it's over my budget) but it requires 17A of 220V power, which puts it over the limit.

    Any suggestions? I have gone in circles researching this for the last few weeks.

  2. #2
    Based on my research, the best solution for a 110v setup for "customize to your space" would be a home made Harbor Freight + SDD + Wynn style filter + Amazon trash can style setup. You can mix and match the form factor, filter location, and trash can size to your particular situation, and you're in for about $600 total ($800 including the Rikon 12" impeller, but that will pull more amps). You could plug that sucker into the same circuit that has your LED lights and call things done. Then you can run the other circuits at the same time.

    You could also find around a 10-15 amp or so, more powerful, 220v dust collector motor and do the same home made setup but just with more power. Might be a few more bucks for the motor (or less if you find used). For example, there was an old school Penn State 3hp 220v dust collector for sale here, that I could have pulled the motor from, but I missed it. That motor had the 12" impeller already and would have been better than the HF one as a start.

    IMO, anything else "prebuilt" is either going to be a compromise on the form factor (lots of footprint), or the cyclone (too short) or actual collection (single stage wall mounted).

  3. #3
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    Add a subpanel. Basically this would take a two side by side "slots" on your panel, but would enable you to put in a lot more circuits. At the present time, it appears you've got a max draw of 50 amps for your shop, so I'd aim for that.

    However the space is going to be a serious problem. I'd consider something mounted on the wall in a position that you could store something under it. Probably a single stage collector, since you don't have room for the cyclone, and run a 20' length of flexible ducting to it. If you're going with a single stage collector, the Harbor Freight model is hard to beat.

  4. #4
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    Mr. Nelson -- Cyclones are better than single stage dust collectors. However, given your situation, I suggest you start with a '2hp' single-stage DC. Given the size of your shop, and your need to move out from the wall any machine you plan on using, you can most likely get by with a short length of flex hose to connect one machine at a time to the DC. Search on the internet for examples of woodworkers who converted their single-stage DC into a cyclone. That's what I did with my HF 2hp DC. The only parts I used from the DC are the blower (including the motor) and the upgraded Wyn cartridge filter. I combined this with a Super Dust Deputy and a 30 gallon plastic barrel to collect the chips. It has sufficient CFM at the end of the 18' main 5" duct to operate one machine at a time. Yours, with the shorter distance to the cyclone, should work even better.

    My shop is larger than yours, so why didn't I get a larger cyclone? Like you, I'm tapped out of space in my sub-panel. It would cost over $10k to get more capacity to my shop. So, a 3hp or 5hp unit was not an option. Also not an option is venting to the outside, which would make the cyclone more effective. Also like you, I have a small shop (just not as small as yours) and was tired of having to move three carts and tools out of the way just so I could get the DC close enough to the tool I was about to use. As a bonus, by being creative in how I assembled my Frankencollector, I was able to suspend it from the ceiling. The bottom of the chip barrel is about 4.5 feet off the floor. This gave me space to park a 44"-wide tool chest. (To do this, I mounted the blower above the ceiling joists, with everything else, being suspended from the ceiling. The final result was a stationary cyclone running on a 120v 15 amp circuit that takes up less space than the old HF single stage DC.

    It works for me. Something similar might work for you.
    David Walser
    Mesa, Arizona

  5. #5
    Thanks for the quick and clear responses. Let me see if I understand right.

    I can get a Oneida Super Dusty Deputy and a garbage can (or one of the cans that Oneida sells). I buy a dust collector, take off the blower with its motor and stick it on top of the dust deputy. I buy a Wynn filter, and put it on the exhaust of the blower. Is that about right?

    A few questions, if so:


    • What kind of footprint does this end up with?
    • Can I run a hose from the blower exhaust over to the filter, so the filter can be tucked away somewhere in a spare bit of space?
    • Is the Harbor Freight dust collector better than other ones, or just cheaper? My experience with HF tools has been pretty bad - should I get a Rikon or a Jet or something instead?
    • How do you connect the DC blower to the top of the Dust Deputy? Just a short length of hose with a couple clamps?

  6. #6
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    Some videos showing conversions:
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v5079FPCsY
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reLVIZ0FWWU

    I've got a super dust deputy with my JET DC1100. the cyclone stage works well for separating, but I would like to have more total air flow to help capture dust at the source. I'm using the JET filter; believe the wynn should provide better filtration. Your barrel under the dust deputy should be sized based on how much material you generate in your projects. 17gallons is pretty small if jointing/planing. 35gallons better (but can go fast, too).

    Oneida makes a couple of smaller form factor collectors (mini dust gorilla and the supercell) which could work, too.

    Matt

  7. #7
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    I'll insert my responses to your questions in blue, within your comments, quoted below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Nelson View Post
    Thanks for the quick and clear responses. Let me see if I understand right.

    I can get a Oneida Super Dusty Deputy and a garbage can (or one of the cans that Oneida sells). I buy a dust collector, take off the blower with its motor and stick it on top of the dust deputy. I buy a Wynn filter, and put it on the exhaust of the blower. Is that about right? Yes, that's about right. There are a number of ways of doing this. That's why I suggested doing an internet search to get ideas.

    A few questions, if so:


    • What kind of footprint does this end up with? It depends on how you measure the footprint. The widest part of the assembly is going to be either the Super Dust Deputy (SDD) or the barrel you use to catch the chips. In my case, it's the barrel, which is just a tad larger than the SDD. The barrel is 21 1/4" in diameter. Of course, this doesn't count the filter, which you can mount up high and out of the way.
    • Can I run a hose from the blower exhaust over to the filter, so the filter can be tucked away somewhere in a spare bit of space? Yes. I built a plenum box out of plywood that fit between the ceiling joists in my shop. The filter connects to the bottom of the plenum. The blower is attached directly to the box. However, I could have ducted the blower output to the plenum. Just take into account that you don't want to restrict the airflow any more than is necessary to make the connections. So, make the duct as large as you can (within reason) and as straight as your space will allow.
    • Is the Harbor Freight dust collector better than other ones, or just cheaper? My experience with HF tools has been pretty bad - should I get a Rikon or a Jet or something instead? The HF DC's advantage is it is cheap. Mine has also been very reliable and it has a good reputation for reliability. There are other single-stage DCs that are likely better. In addition to using a SDD with the HF DC, many have installed an impeller from Rikon's DC. The Rikon impeller is larger and is of a better design. It also causes the motor to use more amps. I've NOT made this upgrade. (The Rikon impeller is out of stock whenever I've looked for one. Too many are buying it to upgrade their HF DC for Rikon to keep it in stock.) However, if you're buying new, why don't you see how much just the blower might cost? Again, that's ALL I used from my DC.
    • How do you connect the DC blower to the top of the Dust Deputy? Just a short length of hose with a couple clamps? Yes and no. There are lots of different ways to attach the blower. I used a HVAC flange that is designed to connect a 5" duct to a large flat duct. I pop riveted the flange to the blower and the other end went inside the SDD's outlet. This causes the blower and SDD to be separated by about 3.5", which allowed the blower to be on top of the ceiling joists and the SDD to be underneath them. Oneida's website shows a number of methods for making the connection. I didn't use any of them.
    David Walser
    Mesa, Arizona

  8. #8
    I also got a "real" DC with I bought a SawStop. My shop vac just didn't get enough dust out of it. I got the HF 2hp DC but I only use the motor and blower. I bolted them to a piece of wood I screwed to studs in the corner of my shop. I have the mid sized super dust deputy directly below the blower and I exhaust it outside. My home made box to collect the dust is below the cyclone. I have a 8 foot ceiling which allowed space for a 70 gallon box. With a lower ceiling you'd have to make a shorter box. I exhaust the blower outside - no filter. My DC takes up a space about 18 inches square but I also have to have room to wheel the dust collection box out from under the cyclone when it gets full.

    You should check this but I think the HF 2hp DC can be wired to run on 220 V. It should draw no more than 10 amps on 220V so I would do it that way if possible. If not, I think it would work on your light circuit but I hate getting close on amps and you might be close when the DC starts up. I would test it first in the daylight or with a backup light available. If you need to avoid outside discharge of conditioned air you will need a filter which would also take up some space but only at one elevation - and you could run a short run of pipe to it if you need to for it to fit.

  9. #9
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    You might look at the Oneida Mini-Gorilla. It's in your price range, has a small footprint, and the 240 V version draws about 8 A. It will outperform the HFDC, which, of course, is nowhere near 2 HP.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  10. #10
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    The above mentioned sub-panel is a good idea and not terribly expensive, certainly far less than a service upgrade. If you don’t have them already, you could also check to see if your panel has any slots that accept tandem breakers. Would allow you to potentially consolidate some existing household circuits and free up slots for a couple new ones.

  11. #11
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    I am extremely happy with my Oneida Mini Gorilla. They are available in either 120 or 240V versions.

    They consume very little floor space, particularly for cyclonic separation with HEPA filtration. The separation is excellent, so the filter stays clean longer. The collection bin is on the small side, but that goes directly to the small footprint. Given your budget, you might want to add the full bin sensor and indicator. The sight glass can get pretty opaque from sawdust on the inside of it. The bin easily disconnects and lowers to the floor, where it can roll out from under the cyclone for easy emptying. When replacing it, the catchments lift the bin back up from the floor to seal to the cyclone base. There is also a clear plastic tube that runs from under the impeller, down to the collection bin, that keeps the bag liner from being sucked up into the cyclone, so you don't have to use a frame or something inside the bag to keep it open.

    They are well within your budget. Assembly was relatively easy thanks to the excellent instructions.

    And Oneida Mini Gorillas are made in the USA, including the motor!

    -- Andy - Arlington TX

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer Nelson View Post
    Okay, finally, a question - what's a good dust collector here? My budget is $2,000. If it takes 230V power, I think it needs to draw relatively few amps so that I don't trip the breaker when I run it with the bandsaw. It seems better to run it on the lights' circuit, but that means it has to be 115V.

    Everybody seems to say cyclones are way, way better than single-stage dust collectors, but they're pretty big. Are there smaller-sized ones that might fit, and could live on my lighting circuit? I looked pretty closely at the Oneida Supercell (even though it's over my budget) but it requires 17A of 220V power, which puts it over the limit.
    FYI - the motor in the HF blower is crazily inefficient and requires a dedicated 25a 115V circuit or it'll trip a 20a breaker on start up pretty much always. Makes the argument for the 220v Mini-Gorilla IMO.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Kelly View Post
    FYI - the motor in the HF blower is crazily inefficient and requires a dedicated 25a 115V circuit or it'll trip a 20a breaker on start up pretty much always. Makes the argument for the 220v Mini-Gorilla IMO.
    Interesting. That's the first I've heard that for a stock HFDC. Was that possibly one that had been modified with the Rikon 12" fan?
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Kelly View Post
    FYI - the motor in the HF blower is crazily inefficient and requires a dedicated 25a 115V circuit or it'll trip a 20a breaker on start up pretty much always. Makes the argument for the 220v Mini-Gorilla IMO.
    Interesting. That never happens with mine, which is close to 20 years old. It hasn't tripped a breaker in all that time and it was running on the same circuit as many of other outlets. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that HF has made some changes since my DC was made. Perhaps this is an issue with newer models or just bad examples.
    David Walser
    Mesa, Arizona

  15. #15
    I looked at that list and can't figure out how you get that in an 8x10 shop.

    My first thought is put the DC outside in a soundproof enclosure.

    Electrically, a good electrician can be very creative to free up panel space, one way is using split 110v breakers.

    Either way you go, a DC really should have a dedicated circuit, as well with your table saw.

    Probably not that helpful, but that's my 2¢

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