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Thread: Dust collection with limited power and space

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Engel View Post
    ... a DC really should have a dedicated circuit, as well with your table saw.
    Why is that?
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  2. #17
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    P=V*I so a 2hp motor (1500w) will draw around 14A at 110V and a 230v only 6.5A.

    Now of course these are the ideal conditions and won't be accurate in a workshop environment but the better made motor will have less reactive power (Q) so you won't have more than +10%more Amps than the ideal.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walser View Post
    Interesting. That never happens with mine, which is close to 20 years old. It hasn't tripped a breaker in all that time and it was running on the same circuit as many of other outlets. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that HF has made some changes since my DC was made. Perhaps this is an issue with newer models or just bad examples.
    I believe the older green(?) Taiwanese motors were probably more efficient and generally a somewhat better grade than the current crop of Chinese made ones. When and if mine poops out, I’ll replace it with the Grizzly version.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by David L Morse View Post
    Interesting. That's the first I've heard that for a stock HFDC. Was that possibly one that had been modified with the Rikon 12" fan?
    Yes, though it started tripping the breaker occasionally prior to adding the impeller as well. Very odd motor that doesn’t conform to any NEMA standards either. I noticed the Grizzly version of the same has an even larger impeller as well, wishing I’d spent the extra dollars on it now.

    https://www.grizzly.com/products/gri...eries/g1029z2p

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Kelly View Post
    Yes, though it started tripping the breaker occasionally prior to adding the impeller as well. Very odd motor that doesn’t conform to any NEMA standards either. I noticed the Grizzly version of the same has an even larger impeller as well, wishing I’d spent the extra dollars on it now.

    https://www.grizzly.com/products/gri...eries/g1029z2p
    Yes, the Grizzly would be a good choice. The HF motor really doesn't have the power to handle a 12" impeller.

    Actually, the absence of a NEMA nameplate is more the norm than the exception. If you look closely you'll see the Grizzly is not a NEMA motor either.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  6. #21
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    Hi, the Supercell will draw 17 amperes, your bandsaw will never be at full load continuously so you’ll be fine with a 30 ampere circuit....Rod

  7. #22
    I haven't had my 2hp HF for very long, probably 2-4 years. It is on a dedicated 20A circuit and has never tripped the breaker. It gets used quite a bit. Filled up my 70 gallon dust bin twice making my dining room table this year, for instance. I am not doubting others experience just saying mine has been positive. It will get nearly all the chips off my lunch box planer pulling through about 20 feet of 5 inch snap lock plus about 15 foot of 4 inch flex. I'm not arguing it is better than DCs costing twice as much, just saying it works for me.

    If I started to trip the breaker I would look at the connections and then the breaker. They do go bad, just had to replace the 50A 220V one on my double oven.

  8. #23
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    My HF unit is on a newly wired dedicated circuit, 12ga Romex, no more than 20 feet from the panel. I did originally try a brand spanking new 20a Square D QO breaker and the blower tripped it right off. I've checked the switch and internal wiring for the motor and nothing looks amiss. The unit runs fine once it spins up, no complaints about it's dust collection capabilities.




  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Kelly View Post
    My HF unit is on a newly wired dedicated circuit, 12ga Romex, no more than 20 feet from the panel. I did originally try a brand spanking new 20a Square D QO breaker and the blower tripped it right off. I've checked the switch and internal wiring for the motor and nothing looks amiss. The unit runs fine once it spins up, no complaints about it's dust collection capabilities.



    That's a really good HFDC major modification. Can I steal a copy of your pics to use as an example of the right way to do that?

    Are you familiar with breaker trip curves? I've done some measurements of the HFDC with Rikon mod. The inertia of the fan causes the motor to draw startup current for a rather long time. Here's where it lies on the trip curve of a QO breaker:
    TripCurve.jpg

    The Red dot is the general range of where the I^2-t of that motor/impeller combination lies. It varies a bit with cable length and blast gate conditions, but it should be obvious that that it's marginal for that breaker.

    The OEM fan, with it's lower inertia, will spin up a lot faster. The current value stays the same but the time shortens, moving that point lower on the curve.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  10. #25
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    Thanks, feel free to share. I'd made a CAD drawing of all this, will post it when I dig it up.

    Unfortunately I've given the OEM impeller away.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by David L Morse View Post
    That's a really good HFDC major modification. Can I steal a copy of your pics to use as an example of the right way to do that?

    Are you familiar with breaker trip curves? I've done some measurements of the HFDC with Rikon mod. The inertia of the fan causes the motor to draw startup current for a rather long time. Here's where it lies on the trip curve of a QO breaker:
    TripCurve.jpg

    The Red dot is the general range of where the I^2-t of that motor/impeller combination lies. It varies a bit with cable length and blast gate conditions, but it should be obvious that that it's marginal for that breaker.

    The OEM fan, with it's lower inertia, will spin up a lot faster. The current value stays the same but the time shortens, moving that point lower on the curve.
    Occurred to me that when I'd previously had the outlet of the blower venting directly outside as opposed to through the filter, the corresponding 20a breaker tripped quite a bit less even after I'd added the larger impeller. I assume the back pressure from the filter also creates some issues with getting this very inefficient to motor to spin up easily.

  12. #27
    I am a bit late to this conversation but I have one question. Do you run more than one tool at a time? If you only turn on one at a time, all of those tools could exist on the one 20 amp circuit. That would free up the 30 amp circuit for a dust collector. That is what I have done in my shop. The dust collector and another power tool are the only two tools that I would ever run at one time so I have separate circuits for them...

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