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Thread: Buying First Turning Tools (set advice and/or individual)

  1. #16
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    It’s hard to recommend what way to go. The Sorby you set is a good set of tools. You will use all those tools later on. If turning larger bowls 10 - 16” then a 1/2” or 5/8 “ bowl gouge would be better. I have a 3/8” bowl gouge, but don’t use it very much. The BB bowl gouges were not good for me. I actually bent my 1/2” BB bowl gouge as noted some less expensive tools are not hardened more than an inch back. However I have some BB scrapers that work well. My first set of tools were HF red handle tools, set of 8. The steel in the HF tools was decent and still use 4-5 today. I have seen where he white handle HF tools may not be as good. Others in the set were re-purposed. For me it was a value starting out, but eventually I think you will purchase higher quality tools.
    Last edited by William C Rogers; 02-03-2021 at 10:57 AM.
    When working I had more money than time. In retirement I have more time than money. Love the time, miss the money.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by William C Rogers View Post
    ...My first set of tools were HF red handle tools, set of 8. The steel in the HF tools was decent and still use 4-5 today. I have seen where he white handle HF tools may not be as good. Others in the set were re-purposed. For me it was a value starting out, but eventually I think you will purchase higher quality tools.
    I agree with everything the handsome and talented Mr. Rogers had to say (including the part I quoted, above). For this reason, I know him to be a man of great sagacity.

    The reason I quote the portion of his comments is to point out the crapshoot involved in buying the cheaper chinasium tools from whatever source. I, too, started with a HF tool set. Mine was the less expensive white handled set. (At the time, the white handles tools were on sale and were in stock at my local store. The red handled tools were not on sale nor were they in stock.) Every tool in that set has served me well and still makes up part of my arsenal. Five years later, or so, the red handled tools were on sale and in stock. I'd heard so many good things about this better quality set that I bought one. Over half the tools in the set were poorly tempered and will not hold an edge! This result was despite the nearly universal belief that the red handled set were much better than the white handled set. This is one of the reasons I no longer recommend going this route. Had I bought a 'bad' example of HF's turning tools, I would not have had the experience to know that it was the tool's poor temper and not my turning technique or poor sharpening that was causing the problem.

    I also no longer recommend this route for another reason. These cheap tools require a lot of work to get them into useable shape. For example, the skews in my 'good' HF set came with sharp corners on all the edges of the tool. I had a nicer skew from Hamlet where the corners had been relieved. With the exception of the bevel, the Hamlet skew also had been polished to the point no machining marks were visible. That wasn't the case with my HF skews (or any of the other tools in the set). In my ignorance, I assumed such details were merely cosmetic and didn't affect the way the tool worked. I used those skews for over two years before gaining the experience to know that the sharp corners and mill marks prevented the skew from sliding easily across the tool rest. The sharp corners were a particular problem. They nicked my cast iron tool rest. But, even the milling marks cause issues. With my gouges, the inside of the flutes weren't polished. This prevented the edge from being as sharp as it otherwise would have been. Also, with all the tools, the mill marks made it easier for gunk to stick to the tools. Again, this made the tools harder to slide along the tool rest.

    Addressing these issues required a lot of time and effort to correct. In the end, I got some serviceable tools. So, if you know what you're doing and have the time, you can save some money going this route. However, I spent two years or more with frustrations that were caused by the poor finish of these tools. As a new turner, I was simply too inexperienced to know the source of my frustrations -- and blamed myself rather than the tools. So, again, for a new turner, I think such tools are a mistake. Even if the newbie is lucky and gets properly tempered tools, he or she is apt to become frustrated because the tools are making it more difficult to learn the craft.
    David Walser
    Mesa, Arizona

  3. #18
    I want to start with small boxes and some tool & mallet handles and also get to doing bowls. As far as chucks, I have a Nova pro tek G3 bundle on the way.

  4. #19
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    I love the teardrop diamond hone that Alan Lacer sells for both honing the bevel on gouges and skews and then polishing the inside of gouge flutes. I also use it to knock down the burr on scrapers prior to pulling a new one with a carbide burnisher. Saves many, many trips to the grinder.

    SlipstoneFlat__27645.1520125388.1280.1280.jpg

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walser View Post
    ... no longer recommend this route for another reason. These cheap tools require a lot of work to get them into useable shape. For example, the skews in my 'good' HF set came with sharp corners on all the edges of the tool. I had a nicer skew from Hamlet where the corners had been relieved. With the exception of the bevel, the Hamlet skew also had been polished to the point no machining marks were visible. That wasn't the case with my HF skews (or any of the other tools in the set). In my ignorance, I assumed such details were merely cosmetic and didn't affect the way the tool worked....
    This is certainly true. Many of the cheaper tools require some work.

    Hey, have you tried the Thompson skews? Not only is the finish good I like the way he puts a semicircular radius on the entire bottom edge. I don't care much for his grinds but the 10V steel is great.

    JKJ

  6. #21
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    John -- I have two of Doug Thompson's skews. They are excellent. I agree that his grind isn't the one I prefer -- too much skew angle for my taste -- but I really like the tools. I also have some of his spindle gouges. IIRC, a 1/2" spindle gouge, a 3/8" detail gouge, and a 1/4" spindle gouge. I don't have one of his bowl gouges. I'll probably acquire some, but I have several that were made by Hamlet or Henry Taylor. Doug's steel is better, but the steel from Sheffield, England, isn't bad. Since I don't turn a lot of bowls anymore, it's going to take a while for me to wear out those gouges.
    David Walser
    Mesa, Arizona

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walser View Post

    These cheap tools require a lot of work to get them into useable shape. For example, the skews in my 'good' HF set came with sharp corners on all the edges of the tool. I had a nicer skew from Hamlet where the corners had been relieved. With the exception of the bevel, the Hamlet skew also had been polished to the point no machining marks were visible. That wasn't the case with my HF skews (or any of the other tools in the set). In my ignorance, I assumed such details were merely cosmetic and didn't affect the way the tool worked. I used those skews for over two years before gaining the experience to know that the sharp corners and mill marks prevented the skew from sliding easily across the tool rest. The sharp corners were a particular problem. They nicked my cast iron tool rest.

    So, again, for a new turner, I think such tools are a mistake. Even if the newbie is lucky and gets properly tempered tools, he or she is apt to become frustrated because the tools are making it more difficult to learn the craft.
    Full disclosure, my entry level set are Buck Bros HSS. The corners of the skew were square. The corners dug into my cast iron tool rest. I clamped the skew in my metal vise, took a file to it to relieve the edges, then dressed the top surface of my tool rest. I didn't like it, so I made my corners more rounded on my skew. I am probably going to make the corners of my skew even a little more round (third trip to the vise) and dress my tool rest again (second time).

    I am learning to make shearing cuts with my skew, that is get to round, and I do like having plenty of flat surface to register on the tool rest for that.

    I do agree utterly crap tools are a waste of money, but I am still glad I am growing into the spinny rabbit hole with tools I am fearless about grinding or modifying.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by roger wiegand View Post
    I love the teardrop diamond hone that Alan Lacer sells for both honing the bevel on gouges and skews and then polishing the inside of gouge flutes. I also use it to knock down the burr on scrapers prior to pulling a new one with a carbide burnisher. Saves many, many trips to the grinder.

    SlipstoneFlat__27645.1520125388.1280.1280.jpg
    This looks ideal! I have diamond stones for my hand tools and this is definitely something I can wrap my head around 😎

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walser View Post
    I agree with everything the handsome and talented Mr. Rogers had to say (including the part I quoted, above). For this reason, I know him to be a man of great sagacity.

    Oh my gosh! This is the best (only) compliment I have ever received.

    The very talented and experienced Mr. Walser posted in a very easy way to understand, that there is a big risk buying the less expensive tools. Sometimes it works, but other times it causes headaches. He is right on point about the finish and quality of good tools.
    Last edited by William C Rogers; 02-04-2021 at 7:22 AM.
    When working I had more money than time. In retirement I have more time than money. Love the time, miss the money.

  10. #25
    Well, given the fact my sharpening tools are delayed, perhaps I can whiddle this down some more and put a finer point on which specific tools to focus on if I were to buy some higher quality tools at the start. While all of you may be wonderful and talented I am perhaps neither 😅.

    What I know,
    Equipment: I will be using a Laguna 1216 lathe (12-1/2" swing, 15-1/2" between centers (stock)), Nova Pro-tek G3 chuck, and a sharpening system (Grinder/CBN wheels 180/600), jigs TBD.

    What I want to make: small boxes, bowls (not huge ones, obviously), mallet and tool handles, and grow over time beyond that.

    Perhaps I will get a $90 PSI set for learning on sharpening and all the setups and jigs. BUT, after having a basic set in hand, how best do I decide where to focus the next individual turning tool purchases/investment ie higher quality steel & manufacturers but more specifically I have are which tools might I want to immediately upgrade, change, or add that aren't part of the basic set? What have you found indispensable with experience?

    3/8 spindle gouge - but a fingernail grind?
    What kind/size negative rake scraper?
    A Bowl gouge that doesn't suck?
    Etc.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Mattsen View Post
    Well, given the fact my sharpening tools are delayed, perhaps I can whiddle this down some more and put a finer point on which specific tools to focus on if I were to buy some higher quality tools at the start. While all of you may be wonderful and talented I am perhaps neither .

    What I know,
    Equipment: I will be using a Laguna 1216 lathe (12-1/2" swing, 15-1/2" between centers (stock)), Nova Pro-tek G3 chuck, and a sharpening system (Grinder/CBN wheels 180/600), jigs TBD.

    What I want to make: small boxes, bowls (not huge ones, obviously), mallet and tool handles, and grow over time beyond that.

    Perhaps I will get a $90 PSI set for learning on sharpening and all the setups and jigs. BUT, after having a basic set in hand, how best do I decide where to focus the next individual turning tool purchases/investment ie higher quality steel & manufacturers but more specifically I have are which tools might I want to immediately upgrade, change, or add that aren't part of the basic set? What have you found indispensable with experience?

    3/8 spindle gouge - but a fingernail grind?
    What kind/size negative rake scraper?
    A Bowl gouge that doesn't suck?
    Etc.
    So as far as the individual turning tool purchases, this is where I think it is really hard to get out of our own heads. Some turners specialize in finials, so their tooling is catered to that, while others do bowls with traditional gouges and have a good selection there, and others do bowls with scrapers, so they have multiples of those. Some try to be able to do a bit of everything, so have more generalized tools.

    I think this is where your own practice, experience, and preferences will come much more into play.

    As far as quality manufacturers, there are three that are fairly popular: D-Way, Thompson, Carter and sons. I personally started buying D-Way as my nice tooling, and was so happy with them, that I haven't ventured far. I do have plans to try out some Thompson tools in the future though.

    If you want to be able to do small boxes easily, I have been eyeing the boxmaster tools at D-Way. I haven't bought any, but they are on my short list to get in the future, and most are double ended, which makes it really convenient to get two different but related tools on the same piece of steel. This is the one I plan on getting: https://d-waytools.com/5-8-double-en...ttom-box-tool/

    Here is my current inventory of unhandled tools (most being D-way):


    I have a separate drawer for the handles:


    For me, the first D-way tools I bought were the 5/8" bowl gouge, spindle roughing gouge, 3/8" spindle gouge, 1 inch skew, and the round nosed negative rake scraper. This gave me some good tools for general use. The second order was when I added the 5/8" bottom feeder bowl gouge, 1/2" spindle, beading tools (I wanted to try them out, they are more of a specialty use, but they work great), parting tool, and the other negative rake scrapers (straight spear point, and curved).

    If you want a bowl gouge with a handle already, then the Ellsworth signature gouge made by crown is an great gouge, and I use mine often in addition to the d-way bowl gouge. If you really get into bowls, you may accumulate a whole bevy of bowl gouges with different grinds and flute profiles.

    If you get more into finials and the like, look up Cindy Drozda, she has contracted with some manufacturers (I want to say Thompson for many of them) for her specific grinds and profiles.

    So I think the biggest thing is for you to get comfortable with your lathe, and try out some different kinds of turnings, and then when you decide that you want to get more into a specific type of turning, buy the tools that are best suited for that. You will most likely also have preferences ebb and wane, so you may end up with a whole bunch of tools of every which kind after a decade of turning, and appreciate each and every one of them!

    As a quick personal example: I started with making pens, and did that for a long time, then did some one off random projects, then getting into cups and small bowls. I did this all with Easy Wood Tools for many years. When I decided to try larger bowls, I realized that the easy wood tools weren't the best suited tool, and that is when I decided to get traditional tools and learn how to sharpen, and then once I felt comfortable, I later bought the D-way tools. At one point I wanted to get into hollow vessels, which meant that I needed additional tools as well, so I got the #3 Easy wood tools swan neck hollower, and then also added the Hunter Carbide Badger tools for hollow vessels. I'll probably want to try some finials later, and will most likely get some more specialty spindle gouges to do that. I find it fun to try new types of turnings, and to make a whole bunch of mistakes, and then see my progress over time.

    I hope this helps at least a bit!

  12. #27
    Melvin, thank you for sharing. That is a wealth of information! Because I am 50 and retired now (and not early do to selling a .com, either, lol, but due to a health issue) I want to take the long, slow route and learn the craft and not take the easy, quick routes that seem to be really popular right now such as pens and carbide tools. For whatever reason that hasn't attracted me. I'm willing to take some growing pains.

    Hopefully, though, at some point the world opens up and I can connect with some local woodturning people, classes, clubs, etc. and also begin learning from others, as well.

    I learned that for small boxes, one of the people I spoke with uses a 10mm spindle gouge, some negative rake scrapers including primarily a 3/4" skew scraper and 3/4" round nose scraper.

    Yes, this is the hard part - seeing the future! Experience is the best teacher and right now that's what I have the least of. Thankfully, I'm humble enough to ask for help and learn as much as I can. I'm checking out the book "Ellsworth on Woodturning".

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Mattsen View Post
    Melvin, thank you for sharing. That is a wealth of information! Because I am 50 and retired now (and not early do to selling a .com, either, lol, but due to a health issue) I want to take the long, slow route and learn the craft and not take the easy, quick routes that seem to be really popular right now such as pens and carbide tools. For whatever reason that hasn't attracted me. I'm willing to take some growing pains.

    Hopefully, though, at some point the world opens up and I can connect with some local woodturning people, classes, clubs, etc. and also begin learning from others, as well.

    I learned that for small boxes, one of the people I spoke with uses a 10mm spindle gouge, some negative rake scrapers including primarily a 3/4" skew scraper and 3/4" round nose scraper.

    Yes, this is the hard part - seeing the future! Experience is the best teacher and right now that's what I have the least of. Thankfully, I'm humble enough to ask for help and learn as much as I can. I'm checking out the book "Ellsworth on Woodturning".
    This is also where it is great to appreciate the diversity of turners. In a certain sense, we are all doing the same thing, but the vast types of projects and how deep we can get into very specific types shows just how far you can go if you want!

    As a side note, I think someone mentioned it, but do you have a plan for acquiring turning blanks from? This is where a club could really be of help to you, as most of us who have turned for a while have accumulated more turning blanks than we can work in a reasonable amount of time, and we can also help process material if needed. A chainsaw and bandsaw are really helpful for prepping wood to go on the lathe.

    For bowls, I typically do twice turned bowls, which means that I turn when the wood is still green and wet, but keep everything thick. I then let it dry, warp, crack, etc. and then turn it again when it is dry to final dimension and finish the piece. If you were to want to do bowls this way, you need a way of getting green wood quickly enough to be able to turn before it cracks on you. Some do a modification of this and dry in a microwave to speed it up, but I've never tried this.

    Another option for bowls, is to buy ready to turn dried blanks from a place like woodcraft or rockler. This will be the simpler way to get started, but it will make turning itself more of a bear because dried wood is a lot harder, which makes it more difficult to turn, and as odd as it sounds, also more painful - when I turn dried wood, I have to be careful of the chips hitting my fingers because they can be very hot and abrasive against my skin. I've actually had my skin blister from this before, so I've learned to be more careful.

    Buying your turning blanks will also get expensive very quickly, especially if you are buying larger blanks or expensive species. I have gone in the direction of learning how to process wood as I have opportunities to with my chainsaws (I've also gotten into chainsaw milling for flatwork, but I usually also cut bowl blanks at the same time). I cut blocks with my chainsaw, and then I built a circle cutting jig for my bandsaw to make roughing the shape much easier. Since I built my chainsaw milling setup, I've had a number of friends tell me that they've had trees cut down or fall down, and I go out and process as much as I like. This has provided me with a tremendous amount of 'free' wood (the chainsaw milling setup ended up being over $2k, so I use the word 'free' for wood very flexibly!).

    Last note for this response - if you start turning green wood, make sure to clean up the lathe of chips periodically while turning as well as completely at the end of your turning session. I've had chips cause staining and surface corrosion just by being on the lathe bed while I turn, so I'm much more mindful of this now.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melvin Feng View Post
    ...dried wood is a lot harder, which makes it more difficult to turn, and as odd as it sounds, also more painful - when I turn dried wood, I have to be careful of the chips hitting my fingers because they can be very hot and abrasive against my skin. I've actually had my skin blister from this before, so I've learned to be more careful.
    ...
    How true!

    I almost always turn dry wood, both by preference and because I have a lot of dry wood on hand. (I've been processing and drying for a long time now - all the domestic wood was "free" but I will sometimes buy exotics and dry them.)

    BTW, I did discover something about hot chips on the hand. If I use a conventional bowl gouge the chips are often directed down the flute towards my hand. But if I use a Hunter tool such as the Hercules the chips go to the side instead, away from my hand - much more pleasant! (The Hunter tool is designed to be used just as you would a gouge but it can work nicely as a scraper if desired.)

    I personally don't mind that the wood is hard. It's a bit slower to turn but not particularly difficult and I don't have to deal with twice turning. (If possible I do let the piece "relax" at least overnight to allow any internal stresses to equalize before the finish cuts, especially for things like lidded boxes.) And for small things I prefer very hard and dense wood, especially wood with very fine grain.

    JKJ

  15. #30
    I started with a set of Benjamin's Best tools. I have since a Robert Sorby spindle gauge and parting tool. I also have a few small sized Easy Wood Tools.

    The only regret is the Easy Wood Tools. I wish I bought the mid or full sized ones.

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