Buying First Turning Tools (set advice and/or individual)

[Allen Mattsen]

After many searches, YouTube videos, various research, etc, I've finally come to you folks for some advice. I'm ready to buy my first turning tools. I have a new midi lathe (Laguna Revo 1216) and will soon have a grinder and CBN wheels on the way. I need help deciding on my first turning tools. I understand they should be HSS, preferably M2 (or better).

Candidates include:

PSI / Benjamin's Best [$75] Set includes (8) chisels 3/16" Parting Tool 5/8" Spear Scraper 1" Skew Chisel 5/8" Skew Chisel 5/8" Round Nose Scraper 1/2" Bowl Gouge 3/4" Spindle Gouge 7/8" Roughing Gouge

Robert Sorby 67HS [$234] 6 Piece Lathe Turning Set with 3/4" Spindle Roughing Gouge, 3/8" Spindle Gouge, 3/8" Bowl Gouge, 3/4" Standard Skew Chisel, 1/8" Parting Tool and 1/2" Round Nose Scraper 67HS


...or others...

My goals are to begin turning boxes, some mallet handles, tool handles, and also get to doing bowls and other things.
(No pen turning).

I've read/seen info that I should begin with these tools, but input gladly appreciated:

3/8" spindle gouge
1/2" bowl gouge
3/4 or 1" skew
1/8 or 1/4" parting tool
1/2 or 1" round nose scraper
3/4 or 1" spindle roughing gouge

QUESTION OF THE DAY:
Should I begin with an inexpensive set (PSI), decent set (Sorby or other), -OR- buy a few necessary tools and add quality tools individually?

I'm not the guy who has to have the best and realize sharpening will be a learning curve, though I am experienced sharpening hand tools already, I know it's different and new. At the same time, I don't really want to waste money only to upgrade later. I will get high quality tools sooner or later. Perhaps a set of tools and a select quality item or two that I'm not thinking about? Is there a specific grind or type of tool I'll likely want and use often that isn't included in one of the sets? Are there a few tools I can buy good quality of and avoid buying a whole set and go that route?

Thanks!

[John K Jordan]

One long-time sage advice is if starting and learning to sharpen, buy a set of cheaper tools. You may grind a lot of the useful length away while learning.

Then later, based on what tools you find the most useful for the type of turning you discover you like, either buy a better set or it may be smarter in the long run to get them individually. Of the set you mentioned, all will be useful. One advantage to buying individually is you might want more variety than what you can find in any set. For example, I use skew chisels from 1/4" to 1-1/4" depending on what I'm turning or teaching. I use spindle gouges sized 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". I keep a variety of scrapers ground different ways - each is useful for specific things.

I personally am a big fan of Thompson tools. I never buy them with handles, both for storage reasons and because I'm particular about my handles. I keep several dozen unhandled tools in one wide, shallow drawer. I make handles such that I can insert different tools as needed. For example, I really enjoy spindle turning so I keep multiple 3/8" spindle gouges all ground identically - when one gets dull I lay it aside and put a sharp one in the handle and keep going. When they all get dull I stop and sharpen all of them - this way I only have to set up the sharpening system once for that gouge (the thing that takes the most time), after which sharpening each one only takes 30 seconds or so.

Remember that even the cheapest tools are more than sufficient for most turning. The difference between different types of steel is mostly how long you can work before resharpening. When I started turning about 20 years ago I bought a set of HSS tools at Sears. I still use some today even though I have an embarrassing number of lathe tools. [hangs head in shame]

One word of caution about cheap tools. I don't remember about the Benjamin's but some cheap tools are not hardened all the way down the flute. I keep a box of cheap or free tools that I give or loan to students. In testing, I find that some are only hardened for the first inch or so! You can easily test: I use a small triangular file. Try filing on the shank of the tool - if the file skates across the steel without biting in the steel is hardened at that point. If the file cuts into the steel it is NOT hardened at that point.

JKJ

[Melvin Feng]

I started my traditional gouge purchases very conservatively, because like you, I didn't know exactly what I needed, or how to sharpen properly. I actually used Easy Wood Tools exclusively for many years before investing in traditional tooling and sharpening.

It is really hard for me to give advice to other turners, because I don't know what kind of projects you have in mind, and then also what direction your turning will take you. As a quick example, for the first many years of turning for me, I was really just doing pens and small pieces, and only recently have I been getting more into bowls (I also have a 12/16, though I started with the midi harbor freight!).

So, if you plan on doing mostly spindle work, then your purchases should align more with that, and the same mentality holds true if you plan on doing more bowls. Those sets will get you started in either.

My gut would be to start with the Benjamin's Best kit, learn how to sharpen well, and then just start working at the lathe. Try different kits of all sorts (pens, ornaments, salt/pepper shakers, etc.), try some cups and then bowls, etc. I would always recommend starting small and slow before going big and fast.

There are some great youtubers out there with really great educational turning content. One that I think has been great, is a fairly small channel still, but I think he has some great content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDw...756vpxL51zd4Uw

For sharpening with the CBN wheels, you also need to make a decision on how many wheels, and what grits, as well as your sharpening jig that you want to use. I personally use the Oneway Wolverine system, and I think it is great. I have additional Vari-grind 1 jigs for the different gouges I sharpen, and also a robo rest for my flat tools (unfortunately, he closed up shop, so you can't buy this anymore). For bowl gouges, I also bought the Ellsworth grinding jig, and fashioned setup blocks to use it on the Vee arm of the wolverine system. I've been really liking the Ellsworth grind, and also have the Ellsworth signature gouge, and also use this grind on my D-way 5/8" bowl gouge (these have a 1/2" flute, so you need to check the details of what you are buying if they are referencing the flute or the shaft).

My main tooling is D-way now, but there are many great manufacturers out there. I actually still have my Easy Wood Tools, and I've also added some Hunter Carbide tools for specialty uses (I have their badger set for hollowing in addition to a #3 Easy Wood tools swan neck hollower). I learned how to sharpen on my cheaper tools first, as D-Way tools aren't cheap! I do really enjoy using my D-way Tools, and have a good number (though not nearly as many as John who posted above me!)

[roger wiegand]

One problem with sets is that different tools are better with different length handles and sets tend to come with one size of handle so they look pretty in the box. I almost exclusively buy unhandled tools now and use them in an interchangeable handle system, or if it's a tool I use frequently I make it the perfect handle for my hands and the tool.

You know yourself, but most people who already know tools will only go through 1/4" of steel or less learning to sharpen; a really good tool will last for 5-20 years. Yo don't want to feel stuck with your practice set.

Starting out I'd work on spindle turning. For that I think the minimum tool set would be a parting tool, spindle roughing gouge (at least 1"), 1" to 1-3/8" skew. 3/8" detail gouge, and a round nose scraper, probably ground with a negative rake. Those five tools will let you turn about 90% of anything you'd want to do between centers. To expand to bowls I'd add a 5/8" shaft size bowl gouge with an Ellsworth grind. I really like Doug Thompson's tools as well. Those six tools will set you back several hundred dollars, but will last a very long time and can be easily resold if you change your mind. (you can go cheap on the parting tool!)

[Reed Gray]

Your list of tools above are what I would consider a good starting set. I guess part of selecting what you will want and need is dependent on your lathe. If you have a 16 or bigger lathe, then go with the larger sized tools. If you have a minl lathe, then go with the smaller tools, except for the parting tool, generally thinner is better. Once you get into bowls, you will want at least 2 gouges. One with a more pointed nose, like the 40/40 grind, and a bottom of bowl gouge, which has about a 60 or 70 degree bevel angle. For scrapers, I would suggest 2, one a standard scraper, and one ground to be a NRS (negative rake scraper). Both can be handy, and with the round nose, you can cut in either direction. I would go with at least M2HSS, and not stuff that is just listed as 'HSS' as that kind of quality is not dependable. I have a bunch of videos up on You Tube, mostly about bowl turning, but a lot about sharpening. I am one who prefers to buy better quality tools to start. I still have some tools from the first set I got, back in the days when there were not all the specialty tools around. None of them ever got worn down so short that they were not sharpenable any more. Woodcraft does carry some nice tools. Thompson and D Way have some of the best out there. Packard and Craft Supplies are also good sources, and Lee Valley has some good tools also.

robo hippy

[Allen Mattsen]

Your list of tools above are what I would consider a good starting set. I guess part of selecting what you will want and need is dependent on your lathe. If you have a 16 or bigger lathe, then go with the larger sized tools. If you have a minl lathe, then go with the smaller tools, except for the parting tool, generally thinner is better. Once you get into bowls, you will want at least 2 gouges. One with a more pointed nose, like the 40/40 grind, and a bottom of bowl gouge, which has about a 60 or 70 degree bevel angle. For scrapers, I would suggest 2, one a standard scraper, and one ground to be a NRS (negative rake scraper). Both can be handy, and with the round nose, you can cut in either direction. I would go with at least M2HSS, and not stuff that is just listed as 'HSS' as that kind of quality is not dependable. I have a bunch of videos up on You Tube, mostly about bowl turning, but a lot about sharpening. I am one who prefers to buy better quality tools to start. I still have some tools from the first set I got, back in the days when there were not all the specialty tools around. None of them ever got worn down so short that they were not sharpenable any more. Woodcraft does carry some nice tools. Thompson and D Way have some of the best out there. Packard and Craft Supplies are also good sources, and Lee Valley has some good tools also.

robo hippy

I'm slowly working through your collection of videos and had watched a few before seeing this post. Tons of good info!

I have a Laguna 12/16 Midi lathe, capable of 16" bowls w/ the extension pkg.

Would you have any NRS and curved scraper suggestions? So many out there to choose from. I know I want a 3/4" NRS scraper and 3/4" round nose scraper for making boxes, but perhaps larger size is better for other work like bowls. Eventually I may get to making some of my own tools but I need a starting point for now. Sizing tools is difficult for a newbie like me. I have learned a bit about who makes the quality steel.

I plan on getting a Thompson bowl gouge through the club I've recently become a part of (Southwest Washington Woodturners Association). Primarily, does a 1/2" bowl gouge seem right for the size work I can do on my lathe?

[John K Jordan]

...
Would you have any NRS and curved scraper suggestions? So many out there to choose from. I know I want a 3/4" NRS scraper and 3/4" round nose scraper for making boxes, but perhaps larger size is better for other work like bowls. Eventually I may get to making some of my own tools but I need a starting point for now. Sizing tools is difficult for a newbie like me. I have learned a bit about who makes the quality steel.
...

I've never bought a NRS but I've made plenty, all ground from Thompson tool scraper, skew, round stock and a few ground from gouges. The size and the profile depends on what you are doing. I sometimes regrind one on the fly for a special profile or purpose, for example to fit into a tight spot.

You probably need to start slowly, get more experience, and try various things before you decide what works best for the things you want to do. Remember that any scraper can be reground to make a different kind of scraper. I've posted these before, but after trying a lot of things I find these NRS the most useful for me. I usually put a different NRS grind on the other end for more mileage. I don't put any of these in handles - they are used so gently there is no need.

_scrapers_IMG_7777.jpg scrapers_neg_rake.jpg scrapers_small_thompson.jpg

(All these are for smoothing, not for hollowing.)

I have more but I don't have more pictures at the moment.

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

I've never bought a NRS but I've made plenty, all ground from Thompson tool scraper, skew, round stock and a few ground from gouges. The size and the profile depends on what you are doing. I sometimes regrind one on the fly for a special profile or purpose, for example to fit into a tight spot.

You probably need to start slowly, get more experience, and try various things before you decide what works best for the things you want to do. Remember that any scraper can be reground to make a different kind of scraper. I've posted these before, but after trying a lot of things I find these NRS the most useful for me. I usually put a different NRS grind on the other end for more mileage. I don't put any of these in handles - they are used so gently there is no need.

_scrapers_IMG_7777.jpg scrapers_neg_rake.jpg scrapers_small_thompson.jpg

(All these are for smoothing, not for hollowing.)

I have more but I don't have more pictures at the moment.

JKJ

Those on the left look ideal toward what I'm looking for (or make). What degree is the grind on those on the left? The ones on the right look new to me. I hadn't thought about just not using handles, nice idea. I'm sure it's easier to sharpen/grind that way.

[John K Jordan]

Those on the left look ideal toward what I'm looking for (or make). What degree is the grind on those on the left? The ones on the right look new to me. I hadn't thought about just not using handles, nice idea. I'm sure it's easier to sharpen/grind that way.

Those on the left are the same ones as in the middle. I use about 60-deg included angle for these. I have several ground nearly the same and burnish a burr on the side I want to be up, giving me Left hand and Right hand scrapers, sometimes more appropriate in some areas, inside or out. I can swap the direction as needed by honing off the burr and adding another. I keep several mostly ground the same so as one gets dull I can pick up another.

Most NRS are ground with the lower bevel longer and the upper bevel shorter but it doesn't matter one bit, as long as the included angle is less than 90-deg. By grinding the bottom bevel the same as the top I get the same feel regardless of which side is up. (with the correct burr, of course)

I've seen several professional turners use and sell these ground similarly BUT rounded over at the end where I grind more or less a flat. For me, the flat works far better in some situations, for example holding the tool straight into a mostly flat or slightly dished surface. With the flat I can make a flatter surface without having to pay as much attention! I have never seen any others made like this but I know several people now using this design after seeing it.

Here I'm using the rounded part to work on a concave curve. BTW, from the photo it might look like the tool tip is raised a little but it's not, it's perfectly horizontal and held flat on the rest.

NRS_curved.jpg

The flat is especially useful when removing tool marks corners or wings when "turning air". I've had people tell me you cannot use a scraper on wings but I disagree. I keep the speed high, keep the tool rock steady against the rest.

NRS_IMG_7515.jpg

I do have one I've ground with a rather tight radius on the end for a special purpose, cleaning up in a fairly narrow cove on the base of a piece. Worked well. Also ground at 60-deg with the top and bottom bevels the same. I ground it from a Sorby scraper.

NRS_rounded.jpg

BTW, you can also use a swept-back spindle or bowl gouge as a NRS if you turn it upside down. Similar to sheer scraping but doesn't cut quite as well BUT can be a little more forgiving than shear scraping if you mess up a bit. Good for tight spots sometimes if you don't have something else handy. I think I was making the box in the 3rd picture.

scraper_gouge!.jpg scraper_gouge2.jpg elm_box_comp.jpg

I have a bunch of small scrapers as in the photo on the right. One is only about 1/8" wide, rounded on the end. I sometimes small scrapers for a single purpose, sometimes find I use them over end over. I think all of these are sharpened on both ends with a different profile. A small scraper is good for cleaning up inside a recess up against edges in tight places.

scraper_box_IMG_20171220_113048_415-1.jpg

One funny story about the small scrapers - many years ago I was at John C Campbell for a class and I brought some of these along. A good friend at the lathe in front of me turned around and saw the scraper I'd ground from a Thompson shallow detail gouge. He hit the ceiling - said he'd had one on backorder for months and here I was grinding them into scrapers!

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

Thoughts on the D-Way bowl gouge, U shaped, fingernail grind vs Thompson V shaped, fingernail grind bowl gouge?

I like the D-way handles and quick-change ability of those and I've read that for a beginner like myself, the Thompson gouge may be a bit more challenging. I get that Thompson's steel is deemed better by most accounts. Just thinking in terms of usability as far as the flute shapes here, mostly.

[John K Jordan]

Thoughts on the D-Way bowl gouge, U shaped, fingernail grind vs Thompson V shaped, fingernail grind bowl gouge?
...

After years of hearing about and trying various grinds and flute shapes I've come to the conclusion that there is not a huge difference, especially to a beginner. Some pros say only use this, this is better, just trust me. Part of the strong recommendation is because that guy has gotten used to it. I'm convinced that an experienced turner can turn well with almost any shape, once he makes a few cuts and sees how it handles.

I think you'll be happy with either tool, or another good brand, especially once you get a chance to experiment with the shape of the grind. What's more important is learning good tool control and how to keep the tool sharp.

My opinion only, some tool connoisseurs will have other opinions.

JKJ

[Allen Mattsen]

What are your thoughts on bottom bowl gouges, specifically if your bowl size limit is 16"?

I noticed Thompson is sold out of them and watched an interesting video on them from D-Way tools. I've read in other (woodturning forum) searches that many think you need the two together but I don't know Probably not necessary at first or for smaller bowls, but need some perspective on this either way.

I'm going to buy the 1/2 D-Way tools fingernail grind bowl gouge with 12" handle tomorrow barring an onslaught of new info 😊

[Allen Mattsen]

New, quality tools so far:

D- Way 1/2 bowl gouge (& 12" handle)
20210227_184220.jpg
2 other Doug Thompson 3/8 gouges (Spindle and Bowl, bought locally though my club since they had on hand)
20210227_184151.jpg

I think next must be a good NRS (or grind one from stock) and a box scraper. Hard to decide on the sizes of scrapers
Some say big, heft ones and others use 3/4 or 1".

[David Walser]

One long-time sage advice is if starting and learning to sharpen, buy a set of cheaper tools. You may grind a lot of the useful length away while learning.

...

I'm one of those who offered such advice whenever the subject came up. I still think it can be good advice. However, whether it's a good approach to take depends, in my view on whether or not the new turner will be equipped with a good sharpening station. Even with A/O wheels, with a decent grinder and jig, most can become proficient in sharpening without wasting too much steel. On the other hand, the quality of steel (and tempering) is widely variable. A new turner may not know if his or her problem in getting a clean cut is due to their turning technique, poor sharpening, or the poor quality of the steel in that particular example of Brand X tools. For that reason, if a decent grinding station is available, I recommend getting a few quality tools (that may or may not come in a set) from a reputable brand, such as Sorby, Hamlet, Crown, or Henry Taylor (or a house brand from a turning supply store that's made by one of those brands). Then, if turning becomes a passion, the now some-what experienced turner can step up to more premium brands if he or she desires.

[Alex Zeller]

I would buy individual tools. You are going to end up with a lot of stuff that you rarely, if ever, use. Why start out buying a set that you might only use half of and then as you get better you most likely will replace the most often used ones with nicer versions. I would like to add to what David said about sharpening. A good jig is going to reduce the amount of steel being ground off. At first you'll remove a fair bit as the grind on the tool isn't going to match what the jig and your grinder will do. But after it's now ground to the new shape you are only going to be touching it up. You've already thrown a bunch of money at this hobby why save a couple bucks knowing that you'll just spend the money down the road.

If you're looking for tools on the budget side I would suggest Crown. They seem to have several versions of steel and (at least when I bought one) the prices were more in the middle range. There's several other brands that also fall into this category. I have a Crown bowl gouge that I bought right off. I think it was one of the powdered metal ones. It's my go to when I need to hog out wood or dealing with bark. It's a good enough quality so it holds an edge but I also don't mind abusing it. I'm sure the expensive gouges I have would also do it but I just like saving them for finish work.