Another question about aluminum wire

[Bobby Robbinett]

After reading the last thread about using aluminum service entrance cable versus copper, I know that the general consensus is that aluminum is fine if installed properly with greased termination points and such.

What I am wondering is if it would be ok to use aluminum to hook up machines such as a 50amp sliding table saw, 30amp shaper or a 50amp dust collector ect. I would assume so, just curious to know what you guys think.

I was mapping out my upcoming electrical overhaul at my shop and I have some long runs with several large machines so it would save me a lot of money to use some aluminum wire. I am having to pay an electrical engineer and an industrial electrical to do all of this so I will definitely run it by them too. My shop is shaped oddly and the best spots for my machines are often not close to my panel. Well about half are and half are not.

[Jerry Bruette]

I'm not an electrician, however, I've worked alongside of electricians for over thirty years in industry and have never seen an inch of aluminum wire in any of the hundreds of panels we have at work.

I've seen the inside of 600 amp main disconnects, bus ducts, machine disconnects, and the machines themselves, no aluminum anywhere. I never asked why but would guess it's the termination devices and possibly a vibration issue.

I'm guessing your electrician won't allow aluminum wire from the main service panel to the machines.

[Charlie Velasquez]

In a word, no
edit: Well, that no is not accurate. Yes you can. But should you?
The newer Aluminum alloy wire in the larger sizes and the appropriate aluminum rated terminals on specific devices are allowed. But installation is key. Remember the ampacity of aluminum is lower than copper, so you would need to upsize the wire.
It is unlikely you will find aluminum alloy wire in sizes smaller than #6.

[Bill Dufour]

AFAIK Al is not used for flex cords. For those amps if you are talking inside wire I would not do it because the cable will be too big. Copper wire for 50 amps is big enough to be hard to deal with in a stud wall no need to use bigger.
Why do you have to have an electrical engineer and industrial electrician? Strict building permit laws in your country?
Bill D.

[Tom M King]

I'm completely fine with using aluminum for service entrance cables, but not for this use. Service Entrance wire goes into lugs made for aluminum wire, and it doesn't get moved once it's installed. From the breakers, out, avoid it.

You can buy that wire that you need by the foot from electrical supply houses for about half what it sells for in the box stores, if you live in a state that allows people off the street to buy from them. Measure carefully, and get enough to have some to throw away, or you are sure to come up short.

[Bobby Robbinett]

AFAIK Al is not used for flex cords. For those amps if you are talking inside wire I would not do it because the cable will be too big. Copper wire for 50 amps is big enough to be hard to deal with in a stud wall no need to use bigger.
Why do you have to have an electrical engineer and industrial electrician? Strict building permit laws in your country?
Bill D.

The reason for the the engineer and industrial electrician is because I am upping my service amperage to 1,200amps and adding 3phase. At least that is the plan, but like all things, plans do sometimes change. I am still in the design phase of this electrical overhaul and I have a budget that will have to be considered.

[Bobby Robbinett]

I'm completely fine with using aluminum for service entrance cables, but not for this use. Service Entrance wire goes into lugs made for aluminum wire, and it doesn't get moved once it's installed. From the breakers, out, avoid it.

You can buy that wire that you need by the foot from electrical supply houses for about half what it sells for in the box stores, if you live in a state that allows people off the street to buy from them. Measure carefully, and get enough to have some to throw away, or you are sure to come up short.

I will go with copper which I was planning to do anyway. The price for the necessary wire for my upgrade is insane. I will likely use MC cable for the machines. That would save me having to put a boat load wire in conduit. I have decided to start a door shop here where I live. I have several large shaper sanders, many shapers, wide belt, bander, sliding table saw ect.

[Ole Anderson]

The only place I might use aluminum beyond the service panel is for a 50 amp service to the range wall receptacle and then only if it was a long run and all of the terminations were approved for AL.

[Frank Pratt]

I wouldn't bother with aluminum for anything below 100A. #2 aluminum is the smallest any supplier carries around here.

[Lisa Starr]

I'd need a new industrial electrician if I even suggested using Aluminum wire to hookup one of our machines.

[Alex Zeller]

Bending aluminum wire isn't easy. At some point you will have to fit the wire into a small box and fight with it. Then you would want to get receptacles rated to work with aluminum wire. As you go up in size it's much easier but not all play nice with aluminum. Aluminum also is a install it once and leave it alone type of wire. Bending then straightening will cause it to break a lot sooner than copper. So in theory you could but nobody does.

[Mike Henderson]

I just installed two 50 amp outlets for electric vehicle charging. I used #6 copper wire. It's not that expensive. I would never consider aluminum wire for things like this.

The main reason aluminum is used for feeder wire is that big copper wire is pretty expensive. The smaller wire you would use for wiring up outlets, or to feed a tool, just is not that expensive. While aluminum wire can be safe, it can cause problems if you make a mistake in the installation. Not worth the small savings to me.

Mike

[Bobby Robbinett]

I have 8-10 machines that need to be on a 50amp circuit and a few of them are 150ft to 200ft away from my panel. That is why I was curious.

I could snake the wire in a straight line across my ceiling to each machine but I think that looks primitive and not professional so my plan is to follow along the walls to each machine.

I also plan to use MC cable to keep from having to run an enormous amount of conduit. I did, however considering using 2” pvc conduit and have like 3 wires in each one with multiple drops along the walls. As I said earlier my shop is an odd layout. There are 5x 25ft walls, a 70ft wall; a 90ft wall, and a 42ft wall. I have around 40+ machines. There is no cheap way of doing this. It also makes dust collection difficult.

[Alex Zeller]

I assume since you are investing in 1200 amp 3 phase service this is a shop you plan on staying in for some time. If so you might want to look into an overhead conductor system. Basically it's busbars that are tied to the main panel. Instead of the breakers being in the main panel they are on positioned over the tool. I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap but it would allow you to add as many breakers as you need and move them to adjust to your shop if the layout is changed.

[Chris Fairbanks]

You are going to seriously have to upsize some of those longer runs and not just by one gauge. Have you thought about putting a small sub panel or multiple sub panels around the shop to help cut down on the length of some of the runs to the machines?