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Thread: Small Turners Workshop Questions

  1. #1
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    Small Turners Workshop Questions

    I just moved and will have a small heated shop in my basement (11' x 15' with a row of shallow shelves on one long wall) and wanted to get some advice/opinions on how to best plan it out. I know it is small, but up to this point I have been using a 4' x 10' strip of my garage so this feels palatial!!! I have a Laguna 2436 and a Laguna BX bandsaw and will need a workbench area/grinding station. After reading on the workshops forum, I have taken John K Jordan's advice and drawn it out to scale with cutouts of my tools, but wanted to post here and see if anyone with similar sized shop has any pictures or advice.

    I have room in my garage for a separate finishing station and storage of any tools/finishes that don't need to be used at the lathe.

    Another question I have is regarding dust collection - in my old garage shop I was saving up to buy a ClearVue 1800, though now I'm wondering if that is too much machine for this small shop with only 2 tools considering that I won't have the space to add table saws/planers/etc.? any advice on dust collection? I'm willing to pay for quality as since my shop is inside I want to minimize dust tracking to the rest of the home (I've even thought about drilling through the concrete that makes up one wall of the shop and directly venting out the side of our front porch but don't know if that is really a feasible option).

    Again, any opinions/advice would be appreciated as I have zero experience with dust collection.

    Thanks,
    Tom

  2. You might want to research the Harvey G700 dust collector, 1100 cfm, $2300. It’s really quiet, the air moving is louder than the machine. I’m building a bench to go over mine so it takes up relatively little space in my garage shop.
    https://youtu.be/bxHXBPuokP4

  3. #3
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    I have a garage as a workshop and constructed the air cleaner below based on a Bill Pentz design

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....t=#post2753825


    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....l-Pentz-design
    Last edited by Brian Deakin; 01-27-2021 at 9:55 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Propst View Post
    You might want to research the Harvey G700 dust collector, 1100 cfm, $2300. It’s really quiet, the air moving is louder than the machine. I’m building a bench to go over mine so it takes up relatively little space in my garage shop.
    https://youtu.be/bxHXBPuokP4

    Thanks David - I'll have to check it out more in depth but it looks like the size would work for my small shop as I could build a workbench/grinding station on top.
    Tom

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Deakin View Post
    I have a garage as a workshop and constructed the air cleaner below based on a Bill Pentz design

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....t=#post2753825


    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....l-Pentz-design
    Thanks Brian - this looks really interesting and simple to build. I just read over the Pentz website and now I'm terrified of what's floating around in my home!
    Do you use this in conjunction with a dust collector or cyclone system or alone?

    Tom

  6. #6
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    For my multifunction woodwork machine and bandsaw I use a a 2 pronged approach
    The main dust outlet for both is connected to a dust extractor which has a mini cyclone Additionally for the bandsaw I have adapted a piece of plastic rainwater pipe which is mounted directly below the the bandsaw table and this is connected to an old Dyson vacuum
    When using the multifunction woodwork machine I adopt the similar principle Main hose connected to mini cyclone and dust collector The overhead cover which shrouds the the circular saw blade connected by a hose to Dyson vacuum
    (I do regularly clean the 2 filters on the Dyson vacuum)

    For the lathe I simply open the garage door and have a fan which blows the fine dust outside The large shavings I simply sweep up

    Other I did upgrade the filter on my dust collector
    Last edited by Brian Deakin; 01-27-2021 at 7:09 PM.

  7. #7
    Clear View DC systems have a good reputation. I have an Oneida system in my shop. They do have some with a very small footprint. For a shop your size, I would think that you should consider building a tiny outdoor enclosed shed. Not difficult to do... As for size, a 1 hp system would probably work, but it wouldn't hurt to have 2 hp in case you ever decide to go bigger....

    robo hippy

  8. #8
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    your wife must really love you allowing you to put a dusty woodshop in the basement.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by allen thunem View Post
    your wife must really love you allowing you to put a dusty woodshop in the basement.

    well, for the last 4 years our garage has been covered in a thin (sometimes thick) film of dust and she was especially upset after she bought a new car last year and it was covered in dust every time I turned. We just moved and she granted me this 11 x 15' space in our basement storage area but she does not want the dust from this small storage room to get into the rest of the house which is why I'm trying to figure out the best dust control regardless of price (normally I'm frugal to a fault but if I don't get this right then I see my wife ending my turning for good!).

    I'm leaning towards getting a ClearVue 1800 and putting it in the cold storage room next to my workshop and drilling through the cement wall for the ductwork. Just not sure if it will affect performance negatively if it is only dropping to 2 machines (though I could add a drill press later) but will almost exclusively be using the lathe. I've reached out to ClearVue but have not heard back, so for now I'll keep researching.

    I like the idea of the air cleaner that Brian posted links to above as well and may add that if the dust collection is insufficient, but not sure and don't want to crowd my limited space if I don't have to.

    Tom
    Last edited by Thomas Wilson80; 01-28-2021 at 5:00 PM.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=Thomas Wilson80;3093040...Just not sure if it will affect performance negatively if it is only dropping to 2 machines (though I could add a drill press later) but will almost exclusively be using the lathe. ...[/QUOTE]

    I can't imagine that affecting the performance. Typical use in a one-person shop is with just one machine at a time.

    Because of the nature of a lathe no DC is going to catch all the dust. A nicely positioned air clearer will remove the fines that will be floating in the air from cutting or sanding. Working in 1/2 of a 2-car garage and before I built this shop and got the cyclone I used a shop vac to get some sawdust, especially at the bandsaw, and relied on the air cleaner to pick up the fines. I monitored with a Dylos particle counter and found that leaving with the cleaner running I could leave the garage for about an hour or less and the particle count would drop from high to nothing.

    I use this at the lathe. I've watched fine sawdust travel horizontally from about 2' away to the pickup nozzle.

    lathe_dust_pickup.jpg

    JKJ

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I can't imagine that affecting the performance.

    I use this at the lathe. I've watched fine sawdust travel horizontally from about 2' away to the pickup nozzle.
    JKJ
    I thought I had read somewhere that the pressure from a 5hp DC might be too much for one port at a time but that is good to know. So I should plan on building an air cleaner then! John, What do you use in your current shop in addition to your DC?

    thanks for the replies....been reading a lot and watching videos and I’m learning a lot and slowly formulating a plan.
    Tom

  12. #12
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    I also have a wife who loves me enough to put up with a shop in the basement. Here are some things I do to keep the dust from spreading to the rest of the house.

    1. Capture it at the source: Harbor Freight "2HP" dust collector upgraded with a Wynn Environmental cartridge filter works well for me. I added an internal Thein baffle to help reduce loading on the filter. I use the Black Hole dust catcher system on my lathe. Pricey but very effective at putting the collection hood close to the work. Craft Supplies and Packard Woodworks sell it.

    2. Filter from the air the dust that escapes from #1. I have a ceiling mounted air cleaner from JDS. Not sure of the model number but it has enough flowrate to turn over the air in my shop many times per hour.

    3. Isolate the shop from the rest of the house. This means drywalled walls and ceiling. No heat ducts or cold air returns in the shop. Also means that I have dedicated shop clothes and shoes that I change out of before returning upstairs.

    4. Monitor how well things are working. I have one of the Dylos particle counters that JKJ mentioned. I've found it to be very helpful in the quest to reduce dust in my shop.

    Some examples of how the Dylos meter has helped me: When I first bought the HF dust collector, particle counts increased when I turned it on, even with the upgraded filter. I found that the plastic bag that the dust/chips fell into did not seal well and air was leaking past. I installed some gasketing type material which sealed it up and the Dylos particle counts went down. It's helped me find other problems too, like dressing a aluminum oxide grinding wheel fills the air with small particles. I now bring a vacuum hose nearby when dressing. And use a CBN wheel that doesn't need dressing for most of my sharpening.

    I run the meter most of the time when I'm working in the shop to see what operations I should improve (those that make a lot of dust) and to make sure that my controls are working. I sucked up a bolt into my dust collector and cracked the housing on the discharge of the blower. I didn't realize it at the time. but later, when sanding, dust counts were much higher than usual, so I went looking and found the cracked piece. Doing the 2nd turning on dried bowl blanks releases a surprising amount dust. I now use my dust collector when 2nd turning...not to catch the chips, but to capture the fine dust.

    The Dylos meter can also be reassuring. For example, it shows that the upstairs in my house (main living area) has a lower particle count than the outdoor air. Also, the air quality in my shop, with the air cleaner running, is often better than the air upstairs.

    It's also worth understanding that the dust you can't see (0.5 micron to about 10 micron particle size) is the stuff that's most dangerous to your lungs. The larger particles that form the dust layer on your cars are a nuisance, but less dangerous. The good news is the smaller the particles are actually easier to catch with your vacuum hood. The bad news is they are harder to remove in the filter. That's why you need to be sure there are good filters on your dust collector and air cleaner, and (my opinion) you should verify they are working correctly using an air quality meter like the Dylos.

    Last thing, in addition to all the above, I wear a half face respirator with P100 cartridges on it most of the time that I'm in the shop. That's because my wife loves me even more than her clean house and wants me to stay healthy for the long haul.

    Hope that's helpful.

    Dave
    Last edited by Dave Bunge; 01-29-2021 at 5:29 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson80 View Post
    I thought I had read somewhere that the pressure from a 5hp DC might be too much for one port at a time ... John, What do you use in your current shop in addition to your DC?
    I can't imagine too much vacuum pressure being too much. If you think there is too much air moving at one machine you can always close down the blast gate to reduce it. It is almost strong enough to pull your hand off your arm and you might want to keep your kitten or pet duck away. ClearVue used to have a video that showed someone releasing a 30' measuring tape under an open 6" drop and it was sucked up across the ceiling and dumped into the cyclone bin. The vacuum on mine is so powerful it collapsed the first bin I tried, a 30gal galvanized steel trash can. I replaced it with a stronger one. BTW, there is a danger to a cyclone motor if there is not enough restriction of the air flow - the warning is to not test the unit without ducts attached or the motor can draw too much current and overheat. I didn't test that! I did put an amp meter on the line and watched the current drop way down when all the blast gates were closed, the reduced pressure inside the cyclone letting the impeller run without the motor doing as much work.

    I have a Jet AFS-1000B air cleaner like this https://www.amazon.com/708620B-AFS-1.../dp/B00004R9LO

    I don't have the air cleaner up at the moment, took it down to move it to a different spot and haven't put it back yet. (You have to be careful to mount it to induce an airflow that circulates past the things making the most dust - my shop has an odd shape in the turning section and I want to improve the circulation) I also have a smaller, similar one on a roll-around stand that I bought used. Use it occasionally but mostly when raising guinea and peachicks in the back room of the shop. Those little birds, for some reason, generate a lot of fine dust!

    JKJ

  14. #14
    Most of the dust generated in the shop is invisible until it lands on some thing. First step in collecting it is to get as much as possible at the source. Second is to remember that just sweeping stuff up off the floor puts a lot of dust into the air. Even just walking through the shop stirs up the fine dust. It is impossible to get it all, but you can get most of it. The air scrubbers do a good job of getting the dust out of the air that floats around for days, and this is what leaves that fine coating of dust on every thing, including your lungs. I will swear that wood dust and chips are magnetic, they stick to every thing. You may need coveralls, and even a change of shoes and socks before going into the house, depending on how persnickety the wife is. Impossible to get it all. I have a 3 hp system which is fine for my 850 sq. ft. turning room and the 1700 ft. flat work room. It sits in between the 2 shop areas. I can run 2 machines at once and get good collection.

    robo hippy

  15. #15
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    Thanks for the replies....things are slowly coming together.
    I'm leaning towards the ClearVue CV1800 - what are the benefits to single phase versus 3 phase in a dust collector for a small shop like mine that would only be using one machine at a time? It is only $25 more for the ClearVue to upgrade to 3 phase.

    I was down looking closer at the space in my new home and the cold storage area that is adjacent to my small workshop has a dead end that would be a perfect place for a dust collector - I would need to drill through a concrete wall for the 6" duct but that would eliminate a significant amount of noise and save me some space. Additionally, I just noticed that there is already a duct going directly outside on the side of my porch that is located about 8 feet away from where I plan on putting the dust collector (has a vent cover on the outside). That way I can try direct venting outside and see how it goes and if needed, can always add filters later. That would also save me a few hundred dollars on the initial purchase.

    Any other thoughts/advice? As always, this forum is a great place for learning and bouncing off ideas.

    Thanks,
    Tom

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