It's called research. Doing your own.Originally Posted by Brian Elfert
I would know co/city/twnshp/school/postal, even cable boundaries before I bought.
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Contributor
It's called research. Doing your own.
I would know co/city/twnshp/school/postal, even cable boundaries before I bought.
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Never, under any circumstances, consume a laxative and sleeping pill, on the same night
Contributor
Really! Before we even offered a bid on our current home we made sure we had high speed internet.
Some states have disclosure laws, some don't.
When it comes down to purchasing a place to live, as Myk says, one has to figure out the rights and wrongs of the deal themselves. Don't expect an agent trying to make commission to know the details.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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I worked for a land survey and civil engineering company for many years. The company had been in business for over 46 years and finally sold it when the all owners were in their 70's and 80's. I dealt with clients and dug up old records for the surveyors and engineers. The previous owners were very accurate surveyors, as well as a lone surveyor that worked that region for 20 years prior to them. All three men were highly respected for their accuracy and detailed notes. The new owner was none of the above.
While dealing with the old and new owners, researching old records, and talking to clients, I learned a lot.
1) Most of the people wanting a survey contacted us because there was a dispute with a neighbor. They never considered a survey when buying the place, nor during all the years while living there.
2) There are a number of bad licensed surveyors and civil engineers out there. Whether it's atrocious calculations, sloppy field work, lazy research, or very poor work ethic, there are a lot of inaccurate surveys filed in the County and State records.
3) More often then not, the bad neighbor continues to be a bad neighbor. They will move and/or destroy stakes and monuments shortly after the survey crew leaves. Many claim they know more then the surveyor because they "stepped it out" or used a tape measure.
4) Reasonable neighbors work out any encroachment issues once the survey work is complete and accept the results. That didn't happen as often as #3. Especially because of #2.
5) Real Estate agents, etc. - Out of the hundreds I dealt with over the years, there were only 3, yes, three, of them that actually paid attention to property lines and did any survey research prior to buying or selling any parcel to their client. All the others only contacted us due to problems. They never contacted us for old survey records prior to a transaction even though we were more then happy to give them that data for free.
When I bought my first property at 19, even before closing, I hired a surveyor to locate the corners. I wanted to know what I was buying. I assumed everyone did that sort of thing. Oh boy was I wrong!
I read recipes the same way I read science fiction. I get to the end and I think, "Well, that’s not going to happen."
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I never thought about getting a survey before closing on a house. I suspect most buyers don’t know anyone who has had a property line dispute so they don’t want to spend the money.
My first house the city made me get a survey. It cost me $4,000 in 2001 dollars!
Contributor
2) There are a number of bad licensed surveyors and civil engineers out there. Whether it's atrocious calculations, sloppy field work, lazy research, or very poor work ethic, there are a lot of inaccurate surveys filed in the County and State records.
Not really related to the original post but a story on a surveyor a few years ago. Working on the railroad several years ago one of our track inspectors encountered a surveyor with his tripod setup in the middle of the tracks. He called the roadmaster who confronted the surveyor. The surveyor went off on him that he could go anywhere he wanted and there was nothing that could be done. The surveyor called the local sheriff saying he would have him arrested for harassment while the roadmaster called our special agent. The deputy arrived and the special agent called shortly after his arrival. The deputy spoke with the special agent and then told the surveyor he had to leave or be arrested for trespassing. He was enraged and as he left he gave the one finger salute. The humorous part was maybe 10 days later the roadmaster received a request to give permission to the survey company to do the previously started work. I know he denied it for obvious reasons. I don't know how it finally played out but there are places they can't go without prior permission.
Contributor
Our house is on corner plot. Realtor told us property extends to the road. Previous owners said the same. Map/title looked fine not that I understood it fully.
Last week we got posting survey done to put fences. And our property ends like 10-20' before road based on the side. Beyond that city owns it. I am glad the dimensions from survey and title match. Could have turned into an ordeal.
[OP]
Member
There is an entirely new complexity to rules about real property when municipal rules and developments are concerned. To lay out lots of a city, at least here, the city had to both approve the subdivision and accept the roads provided for in the plan. Those margins and strips reserved for roads, emergency easements, sidewalks etc. normally must be set forth in the plan for dividing the lots and approved by the town. A title insurance search should have revealed those things to you at settlement, if you paid for title insurance. Frankly, I would be doing more research on the issue before giving up. Even out in the country, the State of PA often maintains a 33 (maybe it's 32) ft wide strip for road ways., even if the road is only 12 feet wide, there would be 10 ft on each side for the state. There are some minor exceptions, such as many old colonial era land parcels extend to the middle of the road, but the state still has an easement for the road that is the prescribed width from center.
Contributor
Sounds like you were told correctly. Your property does extend to the road. Only it is to the road right of way which is always wider then the paved part. government Normally own 4-6 feet of unpaved land on each side of the paved section. This is for sidewalks, sign posts etc. Also the land underneath for utilities underground like gas and water pipes.
Bil lD
Moderator
Yup...easements and right-of-way come into play everywhere. The designated property boundaries in the deed often will lie within those easements and right-of-ways, too, as they predate the generations of road improvement. Obviously in a newer neighborhood, there have not been changes. The bottom line is that while your "property" may extend all the way to a road, there are limits to what you can do within the designated right-of-way. Mailbox? No problem. None permanent landscaping? Likely no issues. A fence/wall? May be restrictions/setbacks on placement. Structures? Nope. Can't do that. And even things allowed in those areas are subject to removal if infrastructure work needs done.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Member
And yet you are responsible for maintaining that sidewalk.
Member
When people build fences on easements with a zoning permit they will be informed that the fence will be dismantled and not reconstructed if a utility needs access.
[OP]
Member
some subdivisions here were required to provide emergency easements to the rear of properties to gain approval. No fences, shrubs etc may be planted on them. In the event of a fire, the fire equipment may have to use the easement to access the rear of a property.
Contributor
People often forget that all of these things are variable by location
~mike
happy in my mud hut
Easements can be interesting.
Many ears ago (1980's?) my city installed city sewer to replace septic tanks.
Visual inspection shows manholes on and next to my lot.
No easements are listed on my dead.
I had some spare time, so when to the court house and research easements
Was even able to get plans from the company the designed the system.
My neighbors easements are registered, but the line the runs 100 ft diagonally across the back of my lot is not registered.
So what can you do.
(I have no problem with this, just an interesting fact.)
Howard Garner
Contributor
We have a similar situation here. Local town bought a right of way across the front of our property several years back. One of the clauses in sale was they were responsible for the property taxes on this section. Not once in the ensuing years have they paid one cent, as we are billed for total amount of land. When they start construction on new force main, we have a BIG SURPRISE for them. They can again purchase right of way, as they violated their own terms of agreement. It's not just us, but several neighbors.
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