Help making most of my HF 2HP DC ducting in new space.

[Kevin Rose]

I'm hoping to close on a new house in a couple weeks and it comes with a detached 2+ car garage that I can outfit how I like for woodworking use. I'm trying to figure out what will be the best setup for my small shop setup and my HF 2HP DC I already own. I'd like to get a cyclone but they're pricey and I feel like it would be cheaper to build a Thein baffle. I know a better DC would be best but money will be snug for a bit. I've been renting for a few years and never set up anything resembling a proper DC system so I'm flying blind here on layout. I have read a lot of the Bill Pentz info but to be honest I have trouble focusing with the information overload or a lot of it just went over my head.

In my new space I plan to completely re-wire the electrical to fit my layout needs so positioning can be whatever I want. The tools don't have to go in the shown places if something else makes a lot of sense. I was hoping to vent my DC directly outside (hence the odd mounting position) but I'm not sure if that would fly in my residential area. I'll have to do some sound tests to see if it's reasonable or not. I've upgraded to a Wen impeller which is the same as the Rikon.

What I have as far as equipment that will be part of the DC map: HF 2HP DC, Craftsman 113 2HP table saw, Ridgid 6" Jointer, Ridgid 13" lunchbox planer, Ridgid 14" band saw, Jet 20" drill press, Ridgid oscillating spindle sander, Bosch 1617 router, Hegner 18" scroll saw.

Here's some photos of the garage and the sketchup layout I have as a starting point. I was hoping to put the 6" ducting up in the joists and such above so it doesn't take away from usable ceiling height. I have the DC mounted in Sketchup as if it were to vent outside. The only two walls possible for outside venting would be the north wall (cabinets) or the east wall, north being preferred. It's up high to get a straight shot into the Thein baffle. I figure I can rig up some lift to get the barrel up there and then secure it with the help of a ladder. Ignore the table saw station for now, it's just a hopeful design at this point; the table saw is on its normal contractor saw base at the moment.

I think the biggest question in my mind is: Would 6" Sewer Drain ducting work with the Harbor Freight DC with upgraded impeller and 6" inlet port on the blower? Will be able to pull the verticals clear? I've read everything from "Absolutely not, physics doesn't allow it" to "I've used a HF 2HP for years with 6" and upgraded impeller and it works fine." I'd like to have some sort of solid answer before buying a ton of the wrong stuff.

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Any thoughts, advice, facts, etc would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[Jim Dwight]

I use the 2hp HF DC but have not upgraded the impeller (if you have information on the Wen impeller I am interested). My shop is an extra one car garage, 14x24. I have the DC in the back corner and ducted outside. It is quieter than a lawn mower by quite a bit. There are bushes between me and the nearest neighbor (mine) and I don't ever see any dust on them. But I am separating with a super dust deputy. I have the motor/blower bolted to the wall with the cyclone below that and a home made collection box of about 70 gallons capacity under that. Takes up about 18x18 inches floor to ceiling.

I do not know about 6 inch pipe, I use 5 inch snap lock. I have to go down to 4 inch at my sawstop, I go to two 4 inch flex connections at my Jet bandsaw, to a smaller flex (maybe 2 inch) plus a 5 inch port at my CMS, and to a long 4 inch flex that goes to either my router table, 8 5/8 Inca jointer, or 10 inch Ryobi thickness planner. The jointer and thickness planner have to go out onto the driveway for any serious work. The suction from the CMS has to go straight up to go across the ceiling and then down to the cyclone. Small cutoffs make the trip. The table saw port is near floor level so the dust has to go up to get to the DC. I've had that run apart to put in an overarm wye and there was a little dust on the bottom of the pipe but nothing serious.

Friday and Saturday I had the DC and planner going hard to plane up about 70 bd ft of rough cherry for a table top. Actually the table top will be less than 50 bd ft but I am not sure which boards I want to use yet so I planned all I had. The 70 gallon collection box was more than half full when I started so I had to empty it pretty quickly. It is pretty full again now. I am pulling through around 20 feet of snaplock plus about that much flex and it gets nearly everything.

I think a thein baffle will work but you will blow out more dust than if you used a cyclone. I used to use one and it did not get the fine dust like a cyclone. But it will work as long as it doesn't matter if there is some dust around your outlet. I don't think the noise should be an issue.

[David Walser]

Kevin -- Congratulations on the new shop. You have about twice the space I have and I hope it serves you well. I also went with a HF Frankencollector (mine uses a Super Dust Deputy rather than a Thein baffle). From your plans, it appears you are planning to put the blower part of DC above ceiling height. That will allow you to run your ductwork on top of the ceiling joists. That's a great design -- saves space and makes running the ducts easier.

From your plans, I have two concerns with your set up: I don't think the HF collector can support 6" ducts. I ran a 5" main duct, with two 4" branches and all drops being at 4". If I had it to do over, I may opt for 4" throughout. Mine works, but I'm concerned that the velocity of air moving through the 5" main duct is insufficient to reliably move heavier chips -- say from planning wet wood or turning a green bowl. I've not upgraded the impeller, so you might be able to get away with 5" ducts. I doubt 6" ducts will work as well as you'd like.

Second concern, I think you have too many drops. Even with blast gates for each drop (mounted as close to the DC as possible), that's a lot of potential leakage to overcome. If you put the blast gates at the end of each drop -- where they are most convenient to use -- much of the DC's power will be consumed maintaining low pressure in those unused lines (plus overcoming the leaks for each blast gate). Besides, with much of your work, you'll want to move your jointer farther away from your bandsaw when using the jointer. Similarly, you'll find you want to move your drill press out of the corner to handle longer stock, etc. So, I suggest possibly one drop for your table saw, and two drops centered on either side of the door to the utilities room. Then, you can use the mobile bases on your tools to position the tool where a short length of flex duct connects it to a drop.

[Alex Zeller]

Can you remove the room with the sink in it? Since I can see the sink is it safe to assume there's also a toilet in there? If not I would think about making a simple shower curtain for the sink and remove the walls to open things up even more. Secondly I would plan on the planer and jointer being mobile. Unless you are dealing with small lengths of wood you'll want to have plenty of room on each end and to be able to walk around them. That would mean putting drops for them closer to the tablesaw. If you can't remove the walls for the sink room then you may want to think about turning the tablesaw by 90 degrees. That way you are less restricted when pushing wood through the saw. I would also think about making an outfeed table for the saw.

[james manutes]

I don't think the HF unit will cut it , regardless of the impeller you put on it . A Thien baffle is a CFM killer , a Dust Deputy will create losses also- not quite as much . I just don't think the Rikon upgrade is enough .

[Kevin Rose]

I use the 2hp HF DC but have not upgraded the impeller (if you have information on the Wen impeller I am interested). My shop is an extra one car garage, 14x24. I have the DC in the back corner and ducted outside. It is quieter than a lawn mower by quite a bit. There are bushes between me and the nearest neighbor (mine) and I don't ever see any dust on them. But I am separating with a super dust deputy. I have the motor/blower bolted to the wall with the cyclone below that and a home made collection box of about 70 gallons capacity under that. Takes up about 18x18 inches floor to ceiling.

I do not know about 6 inch pipe, I use 5 inch snap lock. I have to go down to 4 inch at my sawstop, I go to two 4 inch flex connections at my Jet bandsaw, to a smaller flex (maybe 2 inch) plus a 5 inch port at my CMS, and to a long 4 inch flex that goes to either my router table, 8 5/8 Inca jointer, or 10 inch Ryobi thickness planner. The jointer and thickness planner have to go out onto the driveway for any serious work. The suction from the CMS has to go straight up to go across the ceiling and then down to the cyclone. Small cutoffs make the trip. The table saw port is near floor level so the dust has to go up to get to the DC. I've had that run apart to put in an overarm wye and there was a little dust on the bottom of the pipe but nothing serious.

Friday and Saturday I had the DC and planner going hard to plane up about 70 bd ft of rough cherry for a table top. Actually the table top will be less than 50 bd ft but I am not sure which boards I want to use yet so I planned all I had. The 70 gallon collection box was more than half full when I started so I had to empty it pretty quickly. It is pretty full again now. I am pulling through around 20 feet of snaplock plus about that much flex and it gets nearly everything.

I think a thein baffle will work but you will blow out more dust than if you used a cyclone. I used to use one and it did not get the fine dust like a cyclone. But it will work as long as it doesn't matter if there is some dust around your outlet. I don't think the noise should be an issue.

Thank you for the details, Jim. I hadn't thought about the dust difference between a Thein and a cyclone. That will be a decision to make for sure.

Kevin -- Congratulations on the new shop. You have about twice the space I have and I hope it serves you well. I also went with a HF Frankencollector (mine uses a Super Dust Deputy rather than a Thein baffle). From your plans, it appears you are planning to put the blower part of DC above ceiling height. That will allow you to run your ductwork on top of the ceiling joists. That's a great design -- saves space and makes running the ducts easier.

From your plans, I have two concerns with your set up: I don't think the HF collector can support 6" ducts. I ran a 5" main duct, with two 4" branches and all drops being at 4". If I had it to do over, I may opt for 4" throughout. Mine works, but I'm concerned that the velocity of air moving through the 5" main duct is insufficient to reliably move heavier chips -- say from planning wet wood or turning a green bowl. I've not upgraded the impeller, so you might be able to get away with 5" ducts. I doubt 6" ducts will work as well as you'd like.

Second concern, I think you have too many drops. Even with blast gates for each drop (mounted as close to the DC as possible), that's a lot of potential leakage to overcome. If you put the blast gates at the end of each drop -- where they are most convenient to use -- much of the DC's power will be consumed maintaining low pressure in those unused lines (plus overcoming the leaks for each blast gate). Besides, with much of your work, you'll want to move your jointer farther away from your bandsaw when using the jointer. Similarly, you'll find you want to move your drill press out of the corner to handle longer stock, etc. So, I suggest possibly one drop for your table saw, and two drops centered on either side of the door to the utilities room. Then, you can use the mobile bases on your tools to position the tool where a short length of flex duct connects it to a drop.

Thank you for the good info David. That's my concern: not being able to pull through 6". I'd prefer not to use 5" ducting as you need to go metal for that... but the readily available HVAC stuff is backwards and I don't have the money to dish out for the right stuff. PVC in 4" or 6" will have to do for now I'm thinking.

As far as the drops, I would likely put the blast gates up near the main branch and rig up a way to open/close them with a broom handle or something. I wouldn't want to leave all the drops connected to the system at all times, that's for sure. Using single drops and moving tools to them sounds reasonable, I was already thinking about that as an option so that may be what I do. All my tools are on wheels already so that would be simple.

Can you remove the room with the sink in it? Since I can see the sink is it safe to assume there's also a toilet in there? If not I would think about making a simple shower curtain for the sink and remove the walls to open things up even more. Secondly I would plan on the planer and jointer being mobile. Unless you are dealing with small lengths of wood you'll want to have plenty of room on each end and to be able to walk around them. That would mean putting drops for them closer to the tablesaw. If you can't remove the walls for the sink room then you may want to think about turning the tablesaw by 90 degrees. That way you are less restricted when pushing wood through the saw. I would also think about making an outfeed table for the saw.

That is a hard no on sink room removal. The room has a bunch of cabinetry that my GF has already claimed for storage. Without it our storage space plummets to about zero so I'm not going to test that. Everything is mobile at the moment so that's taken care of. That's why all the tools are tucked together: I can just roll them off the wall and have left/right clearance. An outfeed table is definitely coming in the future. The table saw station is just a design right now so I'll worry about that down the road.

I don't think the HF unit will cut it , regardless of the impeller you put on it . A Thien baffle is a CFM killer , a Dust Deputy will create losses also- not quite as much . I just don't think the Rikon upgrade is enough .

Fair enough

[Jim Becker]

Kevin, I have to be honest...I kinda agree with James. To set things up the way you illustrate, you really need a more capable dust collection system. Dust collection is about moving air...a lot of it...which in turn, moves the dust and debris. "Real CFM" is everything. (and it's nearly impossible to get fan curves from mass marketers) Even though it may hurt initially, investing in a good dust collection system will pay in the long run with both health and keeping things cleaner. In the mean time, the best way to leverage your HFT unit is to keep it mobile, move it tool to tool with a short hose and replace the filter bags with quality ones, such as those from American Fabric Filter or similar.

Nice space, BTW! That's going to be a great shop.

[Jim Dwight]

I have 4 5 inch blast gates on my HF and it is working well. If I have two open at the same time by mistake it still pulls but not nearly as well. But with only one gate open I get good suction. My blast gates are near the tools. But what it does well is keep my tools from swimming in chips and dust. It gets the vast majority of the debris except for things like one sided cuts on the table saw. I haven't measured it yet but I am pretty sure it is not keeping the air clean, however. Some of that is my non Festool sanders and my non Festool routers but that isn't the whole issue. As much as possible I work with the doors open so I can get some air flowing through and I plan to use a blower to greatly reduce the dust film in the shop this spring.

A bigger DC may move enough more air to do better with the air quality. I've never been in a shop with one so I don't really know. But I think the 2hp DC is at least a pretty good chip collector.