Large cabinet doors - vertical grain fir

[scott vroom]

I'm building a 78"T x 42"W built in cabinet. The plan is double doors, each 73T x 19W. Doors are shaker style with 2-3/4 stiles and 3" rails including a center rail for stability and 2 panels. I haven't settled on the rail/stile thickness....13/16 or maybe 7/8. All components are solid vertical grain fir which has been stickered in my shop for 3 weeks in a dry climate. Doors will be finished with 3 coats of Arm-R-Seal on all sides. My method is to apply finish to the back, flip it over onto a nail board and immediately apply finish to the front. This seems to be the best way to avoid warping from uneven finish application.

I've build similar size doors previously, paint grade with maple stiles/rails and MDF panels and had no obvious issues with flatness after installed.

I have little experience with VGF, and while quarter sawn wood in general is more stable than flat sawn, I'm concerned that at 660 Janka, VGF may be more prone to movement than harder species.

I welcome any insights or suggestions.

[John TenEyck]

I've never heard an argument suggesting hardness and stability are related. VCF is known for being very stable. I don't think you'll have any problems as long as your stock is well acclimated and the stiles and rails you cut out of it are straight and flat. The biggest issue I see is to make sure your panels have no twist in them; if they do, they will want to do they same to the frame they are set into.


John

[Andrew Hughes]

I also like Douglas fir. Make sure your getting Kiln dried it’s absolutely necessary that the pitch be set.
Good Luck Scott

[Richard Coers]

I also like Douglas fir. Make sure your getting Kiln dried it’s absolutely necessary that the pitch be set.
Good Luck Scott

I'd go one step further and spec kiln dried furniture grade. Kiln dried construction grade can be around 19% which would make me nervous.

[scott vroom]

I also like Douglas fir. Make sure your getting Kiln dried it’s absolutely necessary that the pitch be set.
Good Luck Scott

Hi Andrew,

My hardwood supplier rejects VGF that's above 8%. The 1" boards I bought were under 8% and are 6.5-7.5 % after 3 weeks in the shop, with no visible pitch pockets.

Thanks

[scott vroom]

I'd go one step further and spec kiln dried furniture grade. Kiln dried construction grade can be around 19% which would make me nervous.

See my comment to Andrew...my supplier has a strict requirement of 8% max for incoming units.

[scott lipscomb]

I doubt you'll have any problem with movement in VG fir-if its clear. It can sap, even if its been kiln dried, shellac can help a little with that. It gets harder with age, too. I really like it for doors, even if it's a little bit chippy and splintery.

[Dave Seng]

I did all of the trim work in my last house using vertical grain fir. It can be beautiful stuff. If it's as dry as mentioned, I wouldn't anticipate any problems with the wood moving - it's pretty inherently stable. Definitely need to use backer boards on cuts and on the router table - it'll splinter if you look at it crossways sometimes. Sounds like it's going to be a beautiful piece, can't wait to see the photos.

[Robert Engel]

I am more than confident finishing both sides is no guarantee against bowing :-( so don't rely on it. That said, you're using a very stable wood, but in the wood world there is no guarantee heck even plywood can warp.

Hinges can help I would use 4 for a door that high. 21" is pretty wide, so the door is really going to hanging out there, true mortise and tenon joinery would be the best, not cope and stick. Personally I don't think 1 cross rail is enough.

But, if you want it pretty much bomb proof, there are a couple ways to hand it one is to glue in a spline the other is make the stiles up in a lamination using a very hard setting glue like plastic resin or epoxy and clamping to a dead flat surface to dry.

One more thing to consider before building them is to move the wood inside your house for a week or so - just to be sure it's not going to misbehave. Better to find out b4 you've built it.

[David Kumm]

I've built passage doors, cabinets, and closet doors from VG Doug fir and none have warped at all. The closet doors are 1 3/16" thick, the cabinet doors are 1". I have used raised panels as wide as 24" with no issues. I like the reclaimed stuff the best but the new seems to splinter less. I don't like if the ring spacing is too wide which in more common in new but it mills easier. Dave

[Tom Bender]

You might make the top and bottom rails thicker and proud of the stiles, and use lap joints.