Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Using Norris Adjusters

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Camarillo, CA
    Posts
    417

    Using Norris Adjusters

    I mostly use regular Stanley’s, but I splurged and got a western-style HNT Gordon smoothing plane with a Norris adjuster. When I’ve got it set well and sharpened, I really like using it. Because it is wood it is really light and glides really smooth. However, once I get it set I really hesitate to make any adjustments to the depth of cut until it is time to sharpen again. When I re-set the blade, especially after sharpening, it can take me a lot of tries to get it set properly. Basically, for anything more than the smallest depth adjustments if find that my lateral adjustment might get off a bit. I’ll loosen the cap screw and adjust laterally, but I find it tricky to not overshoot when adjusting by hand. Then, sometimes as I’m dialing in my lateral adjustment the depth changes slightly even though I haven’t dialed the depth adjuster in or out, then I have to start the cycle all over again. Sometimes I get it set fairly quickly, then sometimes I want to just put it on the shelf and grab my no5 Stanley and get back to my project.

    I’ve watched the videos Terry Gordon posted about setting and adjusting his planes. They’ve helped, and this may just mean I need to dial in the feel for how tight the lever cap needs to be. I’ve also got a little plane adjusting hammer, but I’ve been hesitant to use that for making fine lateral adjustments because I don’t want to damage the mechanism.

    Do people with Norris adjusters use plane hammers for lateral adjustments?

    Any other tips from people with experience?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Camarillo, CA
    Posts
    417
    Ha! I answered my first question. I just re-watched that video and he does use a hammer for fine lateral adjustments. I’m still open for any other tips.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,347
    Blog Entries
    1
    There are many things to consider in the adjustment of hand planes.

    One of the advantages of the Bailey style blade adjustment mechanism is it can be set up to adjust the blade without loosening the lever cap, "adjusted on the fly," as some writers have stated it. One of the disadvantages of this system is if the lever cap is set overly tight it can lead to wear of the brass adjusting nut. This then leads to more backlash. imo, Bailey style adjusters were never made to the tolerances of the modern Lie-Nielsen planes and may have come with a bit of backlash out of the box.

    For adjusting these planes it is suggested to complete the adjustment in the blade advance direction instead of the withdrawal direction. The reason for this is with the backlash (some call it slop) of the adjustment mechanism the blade can be pushed back by the work being planed. My understanding of this is to set the lever cap to the point where the blade will not move by force from the work, then to back the screw off ~1/16 turn. This will let the work move the blade with repeated work, but will not move the lateral adjuster if just the edge of the blade is being used. Some times to lessen the depth of cut if the lever cap is a hair loose moving the adjuster enough into the backlash can cause the blade to be moved back slightly after a few passes.

    Often when setting a plane blade the blade is drawn back and then run over a test piece while slowly advancing the blade to depth. The lateral is then tested by using one side of the blade to take a shaving and then the other side. The two shavings are compared and if needed adjustments are made.

    My guess is you might have better success if you only loosen the cap screw a quarter turn for adjustments. This of course would be after setting the cap screw to the minimum pressure required to keep the blade from drifting laterally when planing. it might be a good idea to make an alignment mark until you get used to it by feel.

    As to adjusting with a hammer there is usually a little extra room for the Stanley lateral adjusters for such a maneuver. Some of my older planes came with blades mushroomed at the top. This made me wonder if some early owners had tried to hammer adjust blade depth. Later it occurred to me they were likely using the blades as chisels for setting door hinges and such.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Coastal Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,824
    "However, once I get it set I really hesitate to make any adjustments to the depth of cut until it is time to sharpen again. When I re-set the blade, especially after sharpening, it can take me a lot of tries to get it set properly. "

    I like the Grace 4 ounce hammer with a Delrin face for plane adjustments. You have discovered "lash", the necessary slack in a screw driven mechanism to avoid binding.

    I bought my Grace hammer as a blemished second from Harry Epstein of Kansas City.

    https://www.harryepstein.com/closeouts.html

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    126
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Ellenberger View Post
    I
    Then, sometimes as I’m dialing in my lateral adjustment the depth changes slightly even though I haven’t dialed the depth adjuster in or out, then I have to start the cycle all over again.
    I have several LV planes with the Norris adjuster and my experience is identical to yours, although I would sometimes say the depth changes greatly and not slightly. I have one 1990’s Stanley plane and I greatly prefer its depth and lateral adjustment mechanism, but it has other issues, so it doesn’t get used as much.

    I use both the Norris adjuster and a LV plane hammer and have not found my preferred method. I think I really need a smaller hammer - which is probably the best way to go I think.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Johannesburg, South Africa
    Posts
    1,076
    If anyone owns a Veritas plane then you can purchase a slow Norris adjuster from Lee Valley. They are about 15 dollars.
    "If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Camarillo, CA
    Posts
    417
    I think just asking the question helped me out. The last time sharpening and setting it went smooth and didn’t take long. I’m still hesitant to make lots of adjustments while using that plane, but since it is a dedicated smoothing plane with a really tight mouth that isn’t too big of an issue. I did make a point of leaving the cap just tight enough to hold the blade when I first set depth and lateral adjustment.

    I’ve used milling machines before for machining metal, so I’m familiar with lash. I usually start with the blade retracted then wind it forward. When I get unintentional depth of cut changes while adjusting it laterally, I’m actually introducing lash in the system. So, the cut gets too deep, then I have to wind back to take out the lash, retract the blade some, then double-check the lateral adjustment and start the cycle all over.

    I’m going to really focus on just getting the cap barely snug when I first set the plane, then only adding an extra 1/2 turn to snug it up once I set the blade. 8Going further makes it really hard to judge how much to back off when you need to make adjustments.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    22,494
    Blog Entries
    1
    Short answer is that the adjuster is made for that purpose, depth and lateral adjustments. On the Norris style the lateral fine tuning can be as easy as a bit of thumb pressure against the knob but, a light hammer could certainly work. I have the slow adjusters in a few of my LV planes but, like the regular Norris style adjusters generally. Certainly the screws that can abut the iron in the Veritas designs are an advantage when it comes to lateral stability during adjustment.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Sunny Southeast
    Posts
    646
    Bill what you are experiencing with this type of adjuster is why most contemporary plane makers don't use threaded adjusters in their tools. Early in my plane making pursuits I made a couple prototypes with Norris style adjusters. I hated those planes and removed the threaded adjusters very quickly. Threaded adjusters create the chase our tail scenario you describe. You loosen the the lever cap to correct one adjustment and it changes another adjustment, and back and forth so on and so forth. If you don't loosen the lever cap you stretch the threads but when you do and you re-tighten the lever cap it torques the iron out of lateral adjustment.

    Most people that are keen to use hand tools are also of an open mind about acquiring skills. The learning curve on adjusting a plane with a hammer is about 30 minutes and once you learn the tendencies of a given tool it becomes a quick and easy operation. Most discover that it's a more accurate way of adjusting and smaller adjustments are made with greater ease.

    I recently did some fettling work on some vintage Norris planes and encountered the same dilemma with the adjusters in those planes. I had no choice but to effect the depth adjustment with the threaded adjusters but found myself pretty quickly resorting to a small hammer for lateral adjustment.

    Hope this helps with your plane adjusting strategies,

    Ron

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Camarillo, CA
    Posts
    417
    Yeah, I really like the hnt Gordon plane, but I think if I want another wooden plane, I’ll make one for myself without an adjuster and just use a hammer to set it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •