Dust Extractors - Festool competitors

[Dave Sabo]

I have the Festool CT22E, which has been excellent. Thanks for the PoweTec bag suggestion as i am in need of new bags. Upon suggestion from our friend from Germany, whose name escapes me, I picked up a Karcher WX5. It has been very good and reasonable priced with the auto on, hepa and variable speed. The hose is short however and I need to pick up the adapter set for the terminations as it doesn’t fit up to the track saw or sander. It hasn’t been a problem as I do have the 22. Next time I go to town I’ll take the hose with me to Rockler to see if the fit-up is right with their adapter set.

Not CT22 bags from Powertec - and the sun is setting on them from festool too.

You should have a look at PT's vac hose with adapters for your WX5. Nice hose in anti-static or regular with 5 interchangeable fittings up to 20 ft. Reasonably priced.

[Andrew Seemann]

I used a Rigid vac with an aftermarket HEPA filter and a muffler. Unfortunately the new Rigid vacs are different than the older ones and the aftermarket HEPA filters don't fit as well. After the filter fell off for about the twentieth time last February blowing sanding dust all over the shop I snapped, jumped in truck, drove to Acme, found that the Makita HEPA I wanted was out of stock, and said "gimme that Festool CT26 there" and back home I went.

The Festool CT26 was roughly six times the cost of the Rigid + aftermarket HEPA +muffler I was using.

Is it six times better than the Rigid? No.

Is it worth six times as much? This is where it gets interesting.

I find that I actually use the Festool closer to 10 times more than I did the Rigid. Why?

• The Festool doesn't make my ears bleed, like the Rigid.
• The hose doesn't catch on everything, like the Rigid hose did.
• The setup doesn't tip over when I pull on the hose, like the Rigid did.
• I can easily throttle the suction down to match my random orbit sanders and other portable tools, plus it gets quieter when I do that, not louder, like the Rigid.
• The hose actually fits my sanders, unlike any combination of hoses I tried with the Rigid.
• The auto-on outlet is much more convenient than messing with turning the vac on and off while sanding, routing, cutting, biscuitting, etc.
• The input port accepts standard 2 1/4" hose, so I can use it to vacuum the floor, plus the longer cord means I don't need to get an extension cord or keep switching outlets. Did I mention it doesn't tip over?
• Plus I actually like that it comes with a bag. The thing I hated the most about every single shop vac I have ever used is getting full of the exact dust that I was trying to avoid, every time I emptied the vac and cleaned the filter. I specifically got the Festool because you don't lose most of your bag capacity with that design, unlike many of the other HEPA extractors on the market.

The shop is also much cleaner overall, because I now use the Festool so much more in regular shop life than I did the Rigid vac.

So despite anticipating a ton of Buyer's Remorse after getting the Festool, after using it for a weekend, I was more regretting having not gotten one years earlier

Regarding Nilfisk, I thought they actually made most of the HEPA extractors on the market and private labelled them for the various brands (Matkia, Bosch, etc). I even have a memory of even Festool's extractors being made by them, but mine said made in Germany not Hungary, although Nilfisk does manufacture in Germany also, so maybe it is a Nilfisk after all.

[Rob Sack]

I discussed this in a previous thread. I have a Festool Kapex and the dust collection with a conventional shop vac was not completely effective. I checked out the Festool booth at last summer's AWFS show and in all fairness, the dust extractor they had hooked up to the Kapex was extremely effective. The only problem was that the cost of the dust extractor they recommended with the additional hose that was required pushed the purchase price to over $900.00. I began looking into alternatives and pulled the trigger on a Ridgid WD7000 from Home Depot, one of my least favorite places to buy anything. The WD7000 was rated at 203 CFM, and while it is quite possible this was inflated, I figured it had to be at least equal to if not an improvement over the Festool claim of 133CFM.

After several months of use, I can attest to the fact that this unit is equally as effective as the Festool I demoed. Granted, I added a Bosch vacuum hose, which matched the Festool i.d. better than the hose that came with the WD7000. It also didn't require any adapters to hook up the vacuum or the saw. I also added a switch box that connects the saw with the vacuum so that the vacuum comes on automatically with the saw. I don't think I spent over $400 total for the vacuum, additional hose, and auto start switch. It would appear I have all the functionality of the Festool, in addition to the wet/dry capability of the Ridgid, for less than half the cost of the Festool.

Oh, and as long as Home Depot stays in business, I have a lifetime warranty on the vacuum.

[Alex Kapl]

I had Flex VCE vacuum before, its rebranded Nilfisk Attix model. Worked good, no complaints. Recently switched to CT 48 as I got one used and couldn't pass up the deal ($350 with boom arm) I do notice a little better suction but Flex was used with festool seperator so maybe thats why. I did mod my Flex to work with festool bluetooth recently. Overall flex is a very good option and i got it during the black friday crazy deal of $249

[Justin Rapp]

I am waking this thread up again. I was also looking at the ridgid WD7000 for a while and when I went to buy get one, it's out of stock and even removed from Home Depot's web site. However after taking a visit to the new rockler store in NJ and coming home with a Festool sander, I am now back on the hunt for a solution to pulling the dust from the sander, and other hand-held tools I use in my shop that are non-festool rated. I am tired of pulling apart my very large Ridgid shop vac, pulling out the filter and taking outside to bang out all the dust. I suspect I could find a dust bag to capture most of the sanding dust before it gets to the filter and just thought of that today (duh).

So here are my questions:

If I get a festool vac: CT15 or Midi are both possible options:
- How are people hooking this vacuum up to other portable non-festool brands (other sanders, handheld routers with dust-ports, biscuit jointer, etc)

If I stay with my loud ridgid:
- Has anyone used the ridgid muffler, does it help, the noise is getting stupid annoying, even with hearing protection?
- For those who put bags in their shop vacs, do they significantly reduce the suction of the vac for things like normal shop cleanup?
- Does the Bosch hose work well with festool?

[Aaron Inami]

There have been various discussions over time about this and to my recollection, at that time, "equivalent" units for performance, noise and features aren't that different in price. More recently, the familiar names have been introducing quieter, more full featured options because of the increasing popularity with contractors for actually using dust extraction from hand-held tools. There's a review article from 2018 I just found via Google search for "Alternatives to Festool Vacuum" (https://www.toolboxbuzz.com/head-to-...-head-to-head/) that has some interesting information and shows some units from the "names" relative to performance, etc. (Doesn't include some Euro options that get mentioned from time to time, however) But this last chart in the article shows that cost for this level of performance still isn't chump-change...but relative to that, this is a larger Festool CT36 which isn't really necessary for small tool collection and costs whole lot more. The other units are similar capacity, however.

This Toolboxbuzz review is excellent. However, please be aware that Makita has a newer model dust extractor (VC4210L). This extractor is the exact same as the Milwaukee, which is exactly the same as the Nilfisk Attix 33. While this is an okay vacuum, it did not perform nearly as well as the upper end(such as Festool/Hilti). One of the problems with the Makita/Milwaukee/Attix33 is that it uses 2 filters - one main filter and a second smallish hepa filter. Not sure, but I suspect this is the reason that the Makita loses CFM once the bag starts to fill up.

The previous model Makita VC4210 that performed so well in these tests is the same as the Nilfisk Attix 44. This model has two large main filters where most other vacuums only have one filter (which is probably why it performed so well).

That being said, I tested briefly with the new Makita VC4210L and the Festool beat it in static pressure suction. Also, the Makita may have been a tiny bit quiter, but it had a higher pitched noise which would cause "listener fatigue" and would be much less pleasant to use.

[Jim Becker]

If you go Festool, I'll suggest the Midi is the better choice of the two you mention. Relative to other tools, if I'm not mistaken, Rockler has a bunch of adapters for mating up with various brands of tools. There are no "standard" ports on small, hand-held electrics so the challenge is the same regardless of what you select for your extractor, honestly.

EDIT: Here's the adapter kit: https://www.rockler.com/3-piece-repl...-12-expandable

I guess I need to schedule a field trip to the new Rockler. The only one I've ever been in was in Denver years ago. This could be costly...

[Aaron Inami]

Restating this (duplicate), because my reply is buried in the middle of the thread.

This Toolboxbuzz review is excellent. However, please be aware that Makita has a newer model dust extractor (VC4210L). This extractor is the exact same as the Milwaukee, which is exactly the same as the Nilfisk Attix 33. While this is an okay vacuum, it did not perform nearly as well as the upper end(such as Festool/Hilti). One of the problems with the Makita/Milwaukee/Attix33 is that it uses 2 filters - one main filter and a second smallish hepa filter. Not sure, but I suspect this is the reason that the Makita loses CFM once the bag starts to fill up.

The previous model Makita VC4210 that performed so well in these tests is the same as the Nilfisk Attix 44. This model has two large main filters where most other vacuums only have one filter (which is probably why it performed so well).

That being said, I tested briefly with the new Makita VC4210L and the Festool beat it in static pressure suction. Also, the Makita may have been a tiny bit quiter, but it had a higher pitched noise which would cause "listener fatigue" and would be much less pleasant to use.

[Justin Rapp]

If you go Festool, I'll suggest the Midi is the better choice of the two you mention. Relative to other tools, if I'm not mistaken, Rockler has a bunch of adapters for mating up with various brands of tools. There are no "standard" ports on small, hand-held electrics so the challenge is the same regardless of what you select for your extractor, honestly.

EDIT: Here's the adapter kit: https://www.rockler.com/3-piece-repl...-12-expandable

I guess I need to schedule a field trip to the new Rockler. The only one I've ever been in was in Denver years ago. This could be costly...

Thanks for the link - that would be helpful. And yes, the store is for sure costly walking in, so best to go in with only the cash you want to spend and leave the credit/debit cards at home. It cost me a sander to leave the store however the higher priced items, like the vacuum I will order from WoodWerks in Ohio (which helps save a bit on sales tax). I will however find ways to support the local store of course but given their proximity to a pretty populated area and being right off the NJ Turnpike and 295, I suspect they will do pretty well. The 'grand opening' must have had 250 people lined up before they opened. The store is a bit smaller than other rockler's I have been to and the classroom area is nothing like the 3 woodcraft stores in PA/DE.

Ok, back to clean-up. My only small hold-up now on going with a festool is the ability to vacuum/shop cleanup. Sure it will get any dust and fine particles, but the small hose size will limit larger pieces from getting through, where my 2 1/2" wet dry excels. I am running out of room to keep them both out all the time. Festool has a 50mm clean-up kit for $175. I guess if I go the festool route I need to keep up-ing my budget.

[Jim Becker]

The solution to the shop cleaning is to not use the Festool extractor for that. I don't. I have an inexpensive, small Ridgid for that purpose. I feel no need to fill up the bag in the Festool extractor with shop detrus and only use it with tools. That said, the same large diameter, flexible Ridgid hose I use with the orange vac will plug right into the Festool extractor. So if you want to use the Festool for cleanup, no problem. It's a standard size hose inlet on the machine.

BTW, what's "cash"...

[Pat Germain]

I guess I need to schedule a field trip to the new Rockler. The only one I've ever been in was in Denver years ago. This could be costly...

I too have visited the Denver Rockler only once. I made the drive when I was getting into woodworking and wanted to compare it to Woodcraft. I walked out with a dust collector, planer and dovetail jig. Yeah, that was an expensive visit.

[Jim Becker]

I too have visited the Denver Rockler only once. I made the drive when I was getting into woodworking and wanted to compare it to Woodcraft. I walked out with a dust collector, planer and dovetail jig. Yeah, that was an expensive visit.

LOL. I visited the Denver area a lot over my years of working for ATT/Lucent/Avaya as there were multiple facilities in Highlands Ranch and up in Westminster. One of the trips I had some free time and managed to hit that Rockler. I do believe I got out of there "unscathed" at the time. If I visit this new store in Moorestown NJ, I doubt that will be the case...

[Frank Martin]

https://www.sylvane.com/nilfisk-aero...ry-vacuum.html

I'd go with the Metabo / Starmix otherwise but it isn't inexpensive.

I used to own a Festool CT22 for years. Couple years ago switched to Metabo ASR 35. Love it. It was a bit cheaper than similar Festool, retailing around $599. Powerful, quiet as Festool, appears very well made in Germany.

[Bruce Mack]

I have a big Ridgid vacuum with both the filter and the collection bag. This is ratchet-strapped to the Rockler Dust Right separator. While it can roll if needed outside the shop, it usually lives in one area of the shop with a 20 foot hose attached and is used mostly for the shavings and sawdust generated by my hand tool activity. Very little of the debris gets to the vacuum bag itself and it has been ages since I have accumulated dust in the pleats of the filter. I run the hose to the tablesaw or the lunchbox planer or the bandsaw when needed (not often as I now do small-scale work). It is far from perfect but good enough. It even works with the 6' jointer for the little jointing I do. As I do almost no power sanding I am happy with the setup which with the dead space of the separator can still provide the suckage I need for the hand tasks and can reach anywhere I need with the hose. Many other workers would wince at the pythonesque hose and I admit if I were doing it again, I'd have a real dust collector with a sweep as well as a Festool.

[Justin Rapp]

The solution to the shop cleaning is to not use the Festool extractor for that. I don't. I have an inexpensive, small Ridgid for that purpose. I feel no need to fill up the bag in the Festool extractor with shop detrus and only use it with tools. That said, the same large diameter, flexible Ridgid hose I use with the orange vac will plug right into the Festool extractor. So if you want to use the Festool for cleanup, no problem. It's a standard size hose inlet on the machine.

BTW, what's "cash"...

Cash is that green paper stuff usually found in pockets and wallets, and usually makes it much harder to over-spend when using. But than again, I have a tripped booked to Hawaii on points from my Amex, which cash won't help you earn .

With that said, I am going with the Midi. The reason my preference would be to use the festool vac is exactly for the bag and filter. Most of the shop clean-up is from stray dust or small chips that make their way out of the path of the big dust collector. I'd rather change a bag than make a mess emptying the shop vac, and of course the filter is always clogged and needs to be banged out in winter, at 10pm during a snow storm