Veneer on curves: has it been done this way before

[David Kenagy]

If my veneer project works out well, I want to make several replicas of an ogee clock. I have to apply veneer to an ogee curve, perpendicular to the substrate’s long dimension. Folks did this a century ago on the original clock. They used hide glue (I think) but I dread getting into that. In recent years, vacuum presses have been popular, but when I ask around, nobody has used them on the tighter curves of an ogee molding.

Last month, I saw a YouTube video in which Tom Johnson fashioned a caul that mirrored the project face on an antique he restored. That gave me an idea:

Why not pay a fellow who does 3D printing to make a caul that exactly mirrors my substrate? I plan to attach veneer in shorter segments, but I could even join identical 3D printed cauls with steel bars on the back and one side. The cost would be a fraction of the cost to get started in veneer vacuum work.

Has anybody done this? Lessons learned?

[Ed Mitchell]

Cauls, yes, often, even involved ones, but 3D-printed ones? No, haven't done that. Seems very cool, but expensive and slow. How is the 3d printer going to find out the exact contours of your piece? That sounds very interesting.

Much, much less "cool", but if you really need a very accurate caul, it seems like it would be much faster, easier and less expensive to just make a mold from your piece -- 40 bucks worth of casting resin, silicone and other mold-making supplies, less than a day and you're done.

[Kevin Jenness]

You can make adequate cauls easily enough with a bandsaw, and use rubber sheeting as a cushion. If you saw your clock ogee out of the solid the cauls are a by-product. If you are generating your curves with router templates use the same process to make the cauls, or use the offcuts with an offset bearing on a flush trim bit to shape caul ribs. Or you could have the positive and negative shapes cut on a cnc router.

You could confront your dread and try hammer veneering, you might surprise yourself.

A line from Charles Hayward has stuck with me to the effect of "no matter how complicated a woodworking project appears you can be sure that some oldtimer could have accomplished it with a knife, a pot of glue and a lump of iron."

[David Kenagy]

I reproduced the curve from the prototype clock using a CAD program that I use for all my projects (never learned SketchUp). I took the image to a millworker shop, and they made blades to cut the contour on straight grained fir. (I asked them what substrate would be the most stable. Later, I wondered whether MDF would be more stable). I can go back to them as needed for identical molding as substrate.

That same image went to an engineering student who does 3D printing on the side. (He made a couple 65 degree angle gears for me that are as tough as I’d hoped). I think the CNC router is another way for new tech to add possibilities. I simply started down the 3D printing path, because I don’t have any other use for a vacuum press. I didn’t trust my planing skills to make a uniform caul, but if a caul is only a few inches long, the bandsaw is also a neat idea.

I might need to learn more about casting resin, too. Can you suggest sources for somebody who’s never done it?

[johnny means]

Many builder grade cabinets are made with the raised panels done similar to what you describe. Yeah, those "solid oak" panels in those Lowes cabinets have a flakeboard core. Personally, I would skip the games and get into a small vacuum system. That being said, one technique I've used in a pinch is to cover the moulding in packing tape , slather it in Bondo, then press a board into that Bondo. The resulting structure is a perfectly matched form for sanding or clamping or shaping plaster.

[johnny means]

Here's project I'm working on with a similar veneer pattern on an edge. It's very slow going and requires that I do couple of glue ups day, due to a limited supply of clamps.
To be frank, it wouldn't be worth doing without a money is no object client.

[Phil Mueller]

You could also look into an inexpensive vacuum kit from Roarocket. They call it a thin air veneer kit. I’ve used it many times and it works well. I can’t imagine the pressure from one of these kits wouldn’t pull the veneer down tight. Less than $100.

[roger wiegand]

I've used heat setting glue on several curved veneer projects-- sort of a halfway house to hot glue. I use hot glue on flats, but have had trouble on curves. Plain Titebond works fine for this (I have now 40 year old projects that are holding up fine), most recently I've used this product https://www.veneersupplies.com/produ...neer-Glue.html

Basically you apply glue to both surfaces, let it dry, and then bond it using an iron.

[Kevin Jenness]

Johnny, how thick is the veneer on that table?

[John TenEyck]

That's some awesome work there, Johnny. I'm still looking for those money is no object clients. .... and looking.

John

[Tony Joyce]

No forms, no bandsawn blocks, no 3D printing. Easy-Peasy. This was made to build Ogee clocks.

Ogee4.jpgOgee1.jpgOgee3.jpgOgee5.jpgOgee2.jpg

I'll admit the easy part was the mold, since I have a molder. I couldn't find my sample of the finished miter corners with flats attached.
What's not showing in the pictures is the mold is on a bevel. These pieces were made twenty years or so ago.
I made several pieces with the intention of making some Ogee clocks also.

PS: When I glued the veneer I used wax paper between the two pieces of mold. Last picture is cork faced blocks for sanding.

[Ed Mitchell]

I might need to learn more about casting resin, too. Can you suggest sources for somebody who’s never done it?

I've been buying from AeroMarine in San Diego for decades: https://www.aeromarineproducts.com/mold-making-101/ think of it as a high-resolution 3d printer
Made some molds for surfboard fins and some other goodies along the way. Johnny Means' post is essentially the ghetto version of the process...think of his as a low-resolution 3d printer. As mentioned above, a bandsawn approximation and some closed-cell foam is very likely good enough, unless the complexity of the surface is high, and at that point I have to wonder if even Craig Thibodeau could get veneer to conform to such a crazy surface.

Good luck!

[Ben Abate]

Here's project I'm working on with a similar veneer pattern on an edge. It's very slow going and requires that I do couple of glue ups day, due to a limited supply of clamps.
To be frank, it wouldn't be worth doing without a money is no object client.

Please publish the final pictures of this table. Beautiful

[johnny means]

Johnny, how thick is the veneer on that table?

,125"+ the thickness of that floor protection cardboard that they sell in rolls. I use it to hold fragile veneers, like cross grained edgeing, together for gluing. I sand it off after gluing.

[johnny means]

Please publish the final pictures of this table. Beautiful

There's a good chance I'll never see it. They're getting Carrara tops installed onsite. Sadly, the veneer work is not visible unless you're under the table, literally. The angle is so shallow that you have to be several yards away to see anything other than the edge.