Contributor
A variable speed and a tool triggered outlet can be used with any vac. They’re both around $30 on Amazon. The variable speed controls is meant for routers but my vacs been running for years with the speed reduction. Ivac is a bit more expensive but my cheap triggered outlet works.
My woodworking theory: Measure with a micrometer, Mark with chalk, Cut with an ax.
Contributor
For sure, if you are sucking a lot of fine dust, I agree it will quickly clog a filter. I used to have a cyclone on my shop vac, but like others have mentioned, found it unwieldy. Instead, now I just use cheap filter bags, which catch ~99% of the dust, and the HEPA filter stays essentially totally clean. I'd suggest the OP try the cheap filter bags + HEPA cartridge before investing in the whole cyclone set-up (besides - that's pretty much what the Festool and similar dust extractors use - a bag plus HEPA cartridge).Originally Posted by Frank Pratt
For a dust collector moving large volumes of air, I can see the benefit of a cyclone, for sure.
My Ridgid shop vac blower was new in 2002. It is the blower for my Dust Deputy version 3.
DD-Idea-ver-3 (31).jpg
I bought the same model (cosmetically different) about 6 years later. It runs the twin of the unit shown above. I have a bleeder on the connection to the DD . . .
Shop Vac Bleeder (4).jpg
Otherwise the suction is too much for smaller hoses when they are in use for routers, ROS, etc. Here it is on version 2 for clarity . . .
Shop Vac Bleeder (5).jpg . Shop Vac Bleeder (7).jpg
Last edited by glenn bradley; 01-02-2021 at 5:18 PM.
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
Member
A smaller, longer, and smoother hose that will allow you to easily hook up to a sander,biscuit joiner, etc....I'm looking to improve my dust collection for my ROS, biscuit joiner, miter saw, etc.
What am I missing?
HEPA filters can be added to jsut about any shop vac for $30 - $40. Why even buy a new shop vac ? Why do you think a new ridgid is of higher quality than your old one ?
What do you think a Dust Deputy is gonna do for you ?
At the risk of sounding like a putz - you really have no idea.I have a big Ridgid shop vac & Dust Deputy for collection from the small tools. It works very well & can't see a good reason to spend hundreds more for a "better" solution.
Cyclones restrict airflow too. They're purpose is to get larger heavier particulate to fall out of the airstream so as not to clog or wear out the later filters prematurely. Marc mentions another upside, conveinience . But something on many Festool vacs, that is negated. The turbine os not in the way and the bags seal , and are easily swapped out.it's hard to conceive that you need cyclonic pre-separation to prevent a 16gal bag or filter from restricting airflow.
Few people can , or even want , to do this.I put the shop vac outdoors,
While you premise is sound, in reality it's hard to disinguish between the noise levels of all of those vacs Rob & Co. teseted without a dB meter. What you fail to mention is that ALL of those vacuums are significantly more quiet than any cheap "shop vac" metioned already in this thread. That difference is easily noticed without a decible meter.This is one of the best head-to-head dust extractor comparisons that I've seen. It's what had me leaning toward the Makita. But, according to their testing, Fein is one of the noisiest (so is Festool). So, $$$ doesn't always equal a lower noise level.
Sure, but that is more applicable to full size cyclone dust collectors. At the shop vac level, the bag is a filter and it's designed to fill up and be replaced. I've never had to repalce the exensive HEPA filters in any of my Euro shop vac. What ypu realy need to be asking yourself at this level is - is a separator worth the added expense, reduced mobility, and the added space it takes up in exchange for reduced bag usage ?When sucking lots of fine dust, a clean filter will start to plug up in moments, drastically cutting airflow.
Contributor
I have the same vac the OP linked to in post one.
I recently built (less than a week ago) a cyclone out of two five gallon buckets with some plumbing hardware. Found a video on youtube while I was feeling cheap.
All in I spent $75, about $20 for a new filter for the vac, about $25 for a second hose to get from the vac to the cyclone, and about $30 for the two buckets and a few fittings.
The cyclone system kicks butt for keeping crap out of the vac filter. I have had to empty my cyclone twice now and bumped out the new filter less than an hour ago. All that got through the cyclone to the filter in the vac was really fine crud that tapped out real easy, there weren't any odd sized splinters to keep dust globs stuck in the filter pleats.
I am sold on cyclone separators because I have built and used one. Moving the vac and the cyclone around the shop is another story, but I would rather sharpen a corner chisel than clean mixed size bits out of a shop vac filter.
This guy, Chris Notap, I had never heard of him before. Beware, the current buckets I can find in town and the buckets he used in the video do not match and it does matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WnitgYFnE0
Contributor
Then instead of sounding like putz, let me know what reasons I have no idea of
I'm aware of what the expensive extractors will do & the advantages of them, but none of those are good reasons for me to spend the additional cash. The cheap vac & cyclone will move and filter the air just as well as a Festool costing 4x as much.
Member
Rather than invest in a hepa filter, why not just use a bag in the vac. It will capture the dust and save your filter, couple this with a cyclone you should be golden. Just like in fishing there are lures for fish and lures for fishermen. Too many people want a new fancy tool, but would get by with something far less expensive. I bought some tools from a guy that had a show room for woodcraft all new and shiny, $1000s of dollars of equipment, he was building plywood deer..
Member
Local farm supply store carries a lot of Dewalt, so I have a lot of Dewalt. Tried their HEPA vac, the DWV010, and really like it. Half price of the Festool 26 and more power. Think the noise level is pretty close to the Festool, but honestly I don't trust my hearing much so I may be wrong on that. I like my 26's square shape better but I can get two Dewalts for the same $, hmmm.....
Member
Then instead of sounding like putz, let me know what reasons I have no idea of
I'm aware of what the expensive extractors will do & the advantages of them, but none of those are good reasons for me to spend the additional cash. The cheap vac & cyclone will move and filter the air just as well as a Festool costing 4x as much.
My dust mask flter dust as well as a ridgid and DD, I can't see any reason to spend money on a shopvac that is noisy and uses electricity.
My ridgid vac sucks fine and the vac bags capture pretty much all of the swarf before it gets to the pleated filter. It works very well & I can't see a good reason to spend hundreds more for a "better" solution like a DD just to save on bags.
These argements must sound framiliar to you.
Like you told Dan - you really should try a longer , smoother , more flexible hose that has a pliable end that natively fits most tools without having to go to rocker, Ace , or Big River to kludge together an a dapter kit to fit your tool. The kind of hose that comes with festool vacs.
You really should try the built in tool riggered outlet so your sander or whatever turns on the vac when you power it up instead of having to bend down to toggle the vacs switch - or- buy an aftermarket module that hangs ? ? ? and leaves cords all over the place.
You really should try a vac with variable speed so that your sanders don't stick to the work.
You really should try a vac that doesn't scream like a banshee while running so you don't need ear defenders when you clean up the floor or bench.
You really should try a vac with integrated hose and cord storage.
Don't value any of these ? Fine. But don't do a sales job on Dan and others that a DD is a slam dunk gotta have accessory for a shop vac above all others. It may be for you, but not for the guy who thinks a 13' hose and automatic activation is the ne plus ultra of vacs.
Last edited by Dave Sabo; 01-04-2021 at 9:25 AM.
Contributor
I'm sure there will be a variety of answers and success stories in response to your post. Given- that I place the highest priority on dust collection and dust-free air in my shop, I won't even attempt to give advice on which brands or types of collection devices to buy. However, my general advice is that, to determine what is the best choice for you, you need to compare air flow/suction, noise levels, capacities, and ease of use in your shop. Sometimes, the best choice is the most expensive and sometimes a lower cost tool will work just as well. In the end, it's what works for you and accomplishes your clean air and tool needs that is your best choice. So, my solution always is set down a list of needs or results (in this case partly which tools you'll use it for and what kind of air movement needs they have). As long as they are HEPA filter and low noise models, there are probably quite a few vacs out there that will satisfy your needs for portable power tools like RO sanders, maybe even routers. When you get to miter saws, however, you're producing more dust/chips and, for me, cheaper vacs didn't work very well. If you ever plan to use it for larger tools like a bandsaw, router table, jointer, a vac probably won't do the job.
Member
Mitersaws aren't really going to work well with any vacuum, whether it's a Sears screamer or a platnium edition german "extractor" Most just aren't designed for good collection. Of course there are a few notable exceptions, but even those aren't as clean as saw placed in a shroud attached to a fixed DC with 4" ,or larger, pipe.When you get to miter saws, however, you're producing more dust/chips and, for me, cheaper vacs didn't work very well. If you ever plan to use it for larger tools like a bandsaw, router table, jointer, a vac probably won't do the job.
So you have probably learned by now that the answer is no. The additional cost comes when you are meeting any specific needs you may have. If you are in a fixed environment like I am I do not need mobility, lower noise levels or the ability to keep 99% of the dust off Mrs. Smith's china hutch in the next room.
I think those that have answered might be able to help more by zeroing in on what works and doesn't work given your requirements. Could you give us more info about your situation, needs, problems with your current setup, etc?
The biggie for me was clogged filters. I moved to Clean Stream filters nearly 20 years ago and while they make filter cleanup super easy, it was still frequent. The Dust Deputy solved that but, created a giant footprint. Going stationary solved that and along with the hose reel, a smaller hose whip and standardized adapters on my tools, things move along smoothly. Your needs are undoubtedly different and a different solution will be your "best" option.
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
Contributor
Have you checked out the Kracher WD4 or WD5? I enjoy mine and the noise level is very acceptable. And the cost saving is considerable.
Contributor
I've been at this hobby for 40 years. I've had Sears shop vacs, Rigid, and WAP (Alto). I currently use a big Oneida for the stationary tools, the Rigid for general clean up, and the WAP for sanding. The WAP is awesome, 56 decibels but it was over $1000 twenty years ago. The newer Rigid 1650 is not nearly as loud as the older Rigid vacs and the Sears. I use it with a HEPA filter and a bag. The bags are like $8.00 each but they keep things super clean.
The Festool as HEPA, auto start, and you can snap Festool systainers on top. It's not especially quiet. Also for shop vacs any with similar amperage ratings will pull similar amounts of air. Noise level is more important to me. If budget is a challenge I'd get a Rigid 1650, HEPA filter, and cyclone separator. Maybe $300 all in.
Member
One obvious advantage of the Festool is that you can put the separator _on_top_of_ the vac, so that it effectively disappears into the system. Hauling the separator around with the vac would methinks get really old really quickly.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
