Cosman Kerf X-10

[Graham Haydon]

Not at all. I comment when I feel appropriate. I contribute to SMC and UKWS as most other forums have become quiet over the years. I was a moderator on another forum for a while so it's unlikely a serial fault finder and critic would be welcome.

"why if it is not one issue, it is another.' I'm sorry you feel that way. These issues often arise as we are not talking in person.

I've regularly complimented both you and others on process and final results. The fact that we don't always agree is a good thing. People like Warren have pushed us to get more out of our tools and have faced resistance. I know for sure that I have learned plenty from him and others, you included.

Regards From Devon

Interested and Happy 😊

[Tom M King]

This idea of the kerf starter, or whatever it's called, is pretty entertaining, to me. All handtool workers know that you aren't a real man unless you sharpen your edges by hand alone, but you need a special tool to be able to start a saw??? I also understand that you're not a real man unless you start the sawing process by only going forward, but if one would lower themselves enough to pull the saw backwards, to start, while giving support the the saw blade with the thumb of the other hand, you might find it's easier, and quicker than using a special tool. Now, a sharp saw makes this even easier, and quicker, so if you wait to long to sharpen your saw, or to send it to someone else to sharpen, you may be back inside the circle of needing one of these tools.

Surely, if you can sharpen an edge by hand alone, you can start a saw.

Try making a bunch of practice cuts on scrap boards. I don't think it will take That many repetitions to leave how to start a cut, and maintain it. After practicing a bunch with a line, try another bunch without the square line. You may surprise yourself at how quickly you will start to see square. It's no harder than seeing straight, but does require some experience.

[steven c newman]

Been reading through this thread......some of the replies....LMAO.....LMAO,ROTFL.....

Sounding almost like....."Whose on First"...by Abbott & Costello.......

What's next? "Can only be done with THIS steel.." Needs 4 different bevels to work ( no, doesn't work with even just a single one)

Or...maybe like the old "Hong Kong Kung Fu" movies....." My Sensei is better than your Sensei! He is the one true and only path" "But mine came first......"

Back to woodworking, Gentlemen.....as the Barkeep is wont to call out....."Time!"

Starting to sound like two Irishmen....standing on a corner..arguing around a battle 400 yrs ago, like they were actually in it.....( something about the colours Orange and Green?)

[Graham Haydon]

Tom, I'm with you. But I would add that I'm fine with whatever tool or process someone chooses.

I think it's easy for you to forget how good you are as you are a professional, you're not playing. I'm not going to rate myself in your league, but I'm still aware of how I learned my trade and it is exactly as you describe.
Difficult cuts in less than ideal situations help develop a feel for plumb and square.

I'd advise people, even if they want to do the finest work, start with gross movements. Cut a 4x2 to length, square and true. Start with square lines then only rely on a pencil tick. A couple of weekends should do it. Then onto something smaller, then smaller again until someone is doing neat joinery. Worked for me during my apprenticeship, YMMV.

The only issue for most people is they are having fun in the limited time available. Likewise, experimenting with processes and tools is something people get a kick from.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Bob, I do have a Kerf Starter. It, along with the joinery saw, was sent to me for a review in 2012. http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...oinerySaw.html

Here is an extract ...





I like the way this tool created a clean kerf for the saw. I can see it being particularly useful for beginners and advanced users alike.


Here is the marked edge, now ready for sawing.







I am not sure whether Kevin would advocate scoring the diagonal lines with the kerf starter or not. I chose to pencil them in, as is my usual method.









I think the Kerf Starter is an excellent tool. It should work similarly to Cosmon's sawtooth knife, but I expect it to more controllable when marking out in hard woods (no teeth to wander in the grain). I occasionally use it, and then marvel at how useful it is.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

Thanks again for the sage counsel. I've glanced through your 2012 review and look forward to savoring it soon.

Cheers,
Bob

[Ron Bontz]

If this against the rules, feel free to remove.
But I do make my little dovetail tools with reverse teeth as well. ( Kerf starters )The 0.025" have 16ppi and the 0.020" version are currently 18ppi. I will probably change that to 16 down the road. Just started another batch.
Best wishes

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Graham, I think that we are separated by different versions of English - the average Aussie would have realised that I was paying a compliment (not making a criticism). I think that we should drop the subject.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Nah, all y'all just need to insult correctly....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAy4...cXIA&index=325

To clue you in.... "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries".

[Andrew Pitonyak]

You are not a "real dovetailer" unless you can do those ultra fine dovetails with a chain saw. And you are "neader", you use a bicycle powered chainsaw. Just saying. I use a 36" bar when I cut mine!

[Bob Jones 5443]

Not to flog a deceased equine, but here's what I've decided to use to bottom out half-blind pin-board kerfs. It's simply a chunk of maple left over from the Moxon vise build, and a 4 x 5" rectangle cut off from a hand saw decades ago. Here it is, upside down from how it's used:

Bob's kerfing tool.jpg

I simply cut a kerf into the maple with my dovetail saw and pounded the 0.025" plate into the kerf. It takes quite a lot of pull to remove it, so I'm not going to try. If I had the wherewithal to cut steel, I'd reduce the 4" dimension by about an inch.

I burnished the business edge of the plate and it follows my backsaw right down to the bottom of the pin-board kerf with a few light taps on the maple. The working corner of the plate is in the upper right in the photo.

When I started out working with wood I was permitted to shadow a cabinet maker in his large shop, and he showed me some of the ropes. One of them was the use of a scraper. He picked up one on his bench and let me take it home. That scrap of steel has somehow wound up kicking around in my shop for all these years.

This tool won't win any beauty contests, but it fits in my hand nicely, it's stout, and it works every time. It is a new and welcome member of my kit.

[Jim Koepke]

If you are using a fretsaw to remove waste from the tails, then a centre (third) saw cut is unnecessary. I recommend using a fretsaw to remove waste from both tails and pins.

My suggestion for the center kerf is only for cutting half blind pins. It wouldn't make sense for through dovetails or a tail board on half blinds.

Unless you have a fret saw trick for getting it into the corners of a half blind pin board.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Bob, you will find that a dedicated tool makes this task easier. One of the reasons I designed mine after a chisel is that it is intuitive to use, and the remove ...



The saw-style may work for you equally well. I imagine (it is a long time since I tried one), that the leverage to remove a chisel-style makes this easier.

There is a to-do on my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMad...ingChisel.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Bob, you will find that a dedicated tool makes this task easier.

Yes, whether shop made or made by a professional it can make cutting half blinds much easier.

Besides, my old piece of saw blade is also my best scraper. Hitting it with a mallet was damaging the mallet. Didn't want to mess up the scraper by hitting it with metal.

jtk

[Bob Jones 5443]

Derek and Jim, thanks for furthering the discussion.

Derek, I am not in possession of the skill to make the tool you describe (no lathe, no way to make a ferrule). I can see the mechanical advantage from being able to dislodge the chisel-form tool by levering it backwards. However, in a kerf that is never likely to be more than 1" deep, I can back out my crude tool well enough. I've even tried it in kerfs that are the depth of my dovetail saw's plate.

Jim, the truth is (dare I admit it) that I haven't really used the scraper. I know, I should probably pick up the method for fine finishing, but I seem to be able to get glossy-smooth surfaces with my 4-1/2 after all else is said and done. As far as striking the tool is concerned, the Frankenstein tool I fashioned allows me to use a 375 g Gennou hammer with light taps that hit the maple, not the metal. I went to this form factor after first hitting the bare plate with the hammer on edge. I quickly saw that was unsustainable; hence the blocky, clunky tool.

Could this thing have become more streamlined and elegant-looking? Certainly. But I made it after making one saw cut and easing the wood corners. One of the reasons I love SMC is that I can actually post fairly monstrous results with work and shop-made tools. Good thing I'm not trying to land a FWW article deal.