Looking for Advice on Shop Layout/Dust Collection

[Jim Becker]

Hey Jim thanks for the encouragement towards the 4x8! That's exactly what I'm worried about. I'll spend $5500 on a 4x4 and regret it that I didn't spend $7500 on the 4x8. I'll have to look into it with Avid and see if it would be an easy upgrade or not. But if not I definitely don't want to have to sell the 4x4 one day and waste all that money. I'm looking to build a really nice shop and not be cheap, but I'm super cheap at my core..

If you are going the AVID route, you actually do have the option of expansion later to 8' or even 10' if you want to do a vertical milling solution at the front end. (Check out Jay Bates' AVID setup on YouTube) If I were opting for an AVID machine, I'd put more money upfront into the gantry/spindle and consider a more industrial controller like Acorn as an alternative to Mach4 and add the longer bed later since that's actually an option to add-on. WIth my heavier Camaster, you need to buy the size you want/need since expansion isn't going to happen with an industrial type design.

[Josh Baldwin]

If you are going the AVID route, you actually do have the option of expansion later to 8' or even 10' if you want to do a vertical milling solution at the front end. (Check out Jay Bates' AVID setup on YouTube) If I were opting for an AVID machine, I'd put more money upfront into the gantry/spindle and consider a more industrial controller like Acorn as an alternative to Mach4 and add the longer bed later since that's actually an option to add-on. WIth my heavier Camaster, you need to buy the size you want/need since expansion isn't going to happen with an industrial type design.

Great, thanks for the info. Can you tell me what the major advantages are to something like Acorn vs Mach4? I don't know a ton about CNCs to be honest. Just looking to get into it. Are there any other machines you'd consider vs Avid in the same price range?

[Charlie Jones]

I am in a 16x24 space. I have a 32” Cabinet saw, 13” planer molder, 6x48 disk/belt sander, 16-32 drum sander, 6” jointer, drill press, mortise machine, router table and Clear Vue 5hp cyclone dust system. The way I make it work is to have every machine except the DP on mobile bases. The cyclone is outside in an attached closet. That really helps with the noise. The key is having enfeed and out feed on the saw,planer and jointer. I rarely move these machines. All of them are in line with the door and I have 8’ or more infeed/out feed. I move the sanders and router table as needed. The DP stays in a corner. I have a workbench where your miter saw station is. I use a Bora centipede for table saw outfeed and assembly table as needed.

[Charlie Jones]

Almost forgot my 14” bandsaw. It is on a mobile base to. I also have a midi lathe and sharping station in a corner. They are not mobile.

[Josh Baldwin]

I am in a 16x24 space. I have a 32” Cabinet saw, 13” planer molder, 6x48 disk/belt sander, 16-32 drum sander, 6” jointer, drill press, mortise machine, router table and Clear Vue 5hp cyclone dust system. The way I make it work is to have every machine except the DP on mobile bases. The cyclone is outside in an attached closet. That really helps with the noise. The key is having enfeed and out feed on the saw,planer and jointer. I rarely move these machines. All of them are in line with the door and I have 8’ or more infeed/out feed. I move the sanders and router table as needed. The DP stays in a corner. I have a workbench where your miter saw station is. I use a Bora centipede for table saw outfeed and assembly table as needed.

Thanks for the info Charlie. Any pics of the shop layout or diagrams? If not no worries, just trying to get it all sorted. Do you have the ClearVue running along the ceiling and dropping down to each machine or something different?

[Jim Becker]

Great, thanks for the info. Can you tell me what the major advantages are to something like Acorn vs Mach4? I don't know a ton about CNCs to be honest. Just looking to get into it. Are there any other machines you'd consider vs Avid in the same price range?

Mach4 is a step up from the older Mach3, to the best of my knowledge. Centroid Acorn is more of an industrial controller (like WinCNC is on my Camaster) and has a lot more options and programmability. That may or may not be important to you, but may also not impact the kind of work you want to do. I'll have to refer you to others for more detailed explanation.

I'm not all that familiar with other CNC machines in that price range. AVID has a good reputation and is US based. So if you're comfortable with the assembly aspects which must be done carefully and exactly, you should end up with a very nice setup. They ave a nice advantage that you can get a big machine into a space that would be impossible for a welded frame unit...such as even a basement shop.

[Josh Baldwin]

Mach4 is a step up from the older Mach3, to the best of my knowledge. Centroid Acorn is more of an industrial controller (like WinCNC is on my Camaster) and has a lot more options and programmability. That may or may not be important to you, but may also not impact the kind of work you want to do. I'll have to refer you to others for more detailed explanation.

I'm not all that familiar with other CNC machines in that price range. AVID has a good reputation and is US based. So if you're comfortable with the assembly aspects which must be done carefully and exactly, you should end up with a very nice setup. They ave a nice advantage that you can get a big machine into a space that would be impossible for a welded frame unit...such as even a basement shop.

Ok great, I'll look into the software and see what makes sense for me.

Do you have any experience with the iVac systems? I was leaning towards the automated dust collection setup, but I read something today about not wanting to cycle on and off the motor too frequently. I'm sure there are some settings I can tweak to keep it running after the machine turns off for a bit, but any thoughts you might have on this would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Andrew More]

Hard to tell from looking at your diagram, so you may have thought of this already. I find it best to be able to put the jointer/planer "away" under the miterstation workbench. This is because both tools work well when on relatively short stands, and my miter saw bench is relatively high. This does mean no storage in the lower cabinets, but by moving them both under the station when not in use, you can gain a LOT of floor space.

General work patterns for me are to use these tools at the beginning of the project, or skip it, depending on what I'm doing. Once this is done, they're just in the way.

[james manutes]

The issue of cycling on/off I think can be minimized by planning . Jointer to planer to T.S. etc. - try to process all that is practical . The downside of that is if it its too long , it can move again and possibly need more milling . If I am making a single cut on the table saw , I usually don't fire up the DC for that , unless it's a long rip cut or something significant .

[Josh Baldwin]

Hard to tell from looking at your diagram, so you may have thought of this already. I find it best to be able to put the jointer/planer "away" under the miterstation workbench. This is because both tools work well when on relatively short stands, and my miter saw bench is relatively high. This does mean no storage in the lower cabinets, but by moving them both under the station when not in use, you can gain a LOT of floor space.

General work patterns for me are to use these tools at the beginning of the project, or skip it, depending on what I'm doing. Once this is done, they're just in the way.

Thanks for the suggestion Andrew. The whole miter station is full of cabinets, but that does give me the idea that I can just stick them against the wall and not worry about infeed/outfeed spacing. I'll just pull them out from the wall a few feet when I need to use them. Thanks!

[Josh Baldwin]

The issue of cycling on/off I think can be minimized by planning . Jointer to planer to T.S. etc. - try to process all that is practical . The downside of that is if it its too long , it can move again and possibly need more milling . If I am making a single cut on the table saw , I usually don't fire up the DC for that , unless it's a long rip cut or something significant .

Yea I figure I'll try to do my best to run it while I'm going through the entire process. That's the only thing that worries me about the iVac system is that I'll be relying on it to turn the collector on/off when tools are in use or not. But I'll look into it a bit more. Thanks

[Ron Selzer]

Ok great, I'll look into the software and see what makes sense for me.

Do you have any experience with the iVac systems? I was leaning towards the automated dust collection setup, but I read something today about not wanting to cycle on and off the motor too frequently. I'm sure there are some settings I can tweak to keep it running after the machine turns off for a bit, but any thoughts you might have on this would be appreciated. Thanks!

not up on the IVac system but have a automated dust collection system here that triggers on/off of tools running. Added a switch to the controls that holds the dust collectors on as long as switch is on. When milling a lot turn switch on and then turn table saw, jointer, radial arm saw and planer on and off as needed while letting dust collector run continuous. For occasional cuts let the dust collectors turn on and off with the tool
Ron

[Charlie Jones]

I can take some pictures and do a diagram tomorrow if that will help. My dust ducts are 6” PVC sewer and drain, ceiling hung.

[Josh Baldwin]

Anyone have any opinions about skipping the cartridge filter and just venting outside? I assume very little will actually make it out there since most of it goes in the cyclone, but any input would be great. Thanks

[Marc Fenneuff]

Anyone have any opinions about skipping the cartridge filter and just venting outside? I assume very little will actually make it out there since most of it goes in the cyclone, but any input would be great. Thanks

Correct, you can expect very little to get past the cyclone. Your two considerations for venting outside will be, can you crack a window for make-up air, and, will you be losing conditioned air to the outside on the hottest and the coldest days?