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Thread: Iron and Chipbreaker upgrade.

  1. #1
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    Iron and Chipbreaker upgrade.

    Hello everyone and happy new Year.

    I missed a really good deal a couple of months back for a LN bronze no.4 for 160usd which would be my first really hi end plane. Since then Ive been thinking upgrading me Stanley no.4 Smoother with an aftermarket iron and cap and wait for the right moment to grab an LN.

    I can find in many shops in Europe combos by Ron Hock and Veritas and also blades from Japanese steel, Kunz HSS and laminated Chinese HSS.


    Would you recommend something that you have seen working and be happy with?

  2. #2
    Three years ago, I upgraded my #4 with a Veritas iron and chipbreaker and I have been very happy with it. In fact, I've been so happy with the tool that I never bought the LN #4 that I originally wanted.

    Here is a LINK to what I bought. I chose A2 steel but other steels are available.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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  3. #3
    I have a Stanley 5 with an iron that had a significant hump along the back. I put a Hock O1 iron in and retained the original Stanley chipbreaker and it works just fine.

    The Veritas irons are also excellent, but I believe they are thicker than the Hock irons. So my #5 required no frog adjustment or mouth filing by just replacing the iron with a Hock.

    It may be that you just need the iron, and not the chipbreaker.

    Also, I got a bronze #3 from Lie Nielsen earlier this year and I absolutely adore it. It is such a pleasure to use and look at. You definitely need that #4 eventually.

  4. #4
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    Hi Michail,

    My experience is limited to a handful of Hock blades and one PM v-11 from Veritas. The Hock O1 blades are excellent. The PM x-11 just keeps on going. After its first honing it has been used a lot without signs of dulling. It is an amazing material.

    My main observation with the Hock blades is they wear better than the original Stanley blades. If the user doesn't pay attention they will tend to be used longer than other blades which results in more honing needed to get past the wear on the edge.

    Most of my planes still have Stanley irons. They work fine for me.

    The Hock blades work fine with a good Stanley chip breaker.

    Nathan expresses a good point:

    Also, I got a bronze #3 from Lie Nielsen earlier this year and I absolutely adore it. It is such a pleasure to use and look at. You definitely need that #4 eventually.
    How a person feels about the tools in their hand as they are used can have an influence on how we relate to our work. For me a tool that has been through the turning of two centuries has as much, if not more, appeal as one made to the highest engineering standards just last week.

    One's pride can glow from holding a fine piece of modern craftsmanship while producing their own fine work.

    My warm fuzzies often come from holding a tool that was brought back from a slow rusting end to a piece having risen phoenix like to work again.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
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  5. #5
    I've actually gotten the best bang for the buck replacing the chipbreakers with Hock units. It made a GIANT improvement getting rid of chatter and making everything work better.

    I've tried a bunch of things and almost completely went back to Stanley irons. They're just so easy to sharpen.

  6. #6
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    Thanks to everyone for the responses. I will stick to either Hock or Veritas combo, depending on availability in European shops.

    I dont have anything against the Stanley stock iron, the surface left by my smoother only gets burnished by the shavings before applying finish, but to keep it that way I have to sharpen a lot for anything a bit larger than a keepsake box.

    I noticed that the veritas combo is a lot cheaper in US(around 35euros less, thats what the vintage Stanley costed me initially, haha).

  7. #7
    I upgraded a 4.5 with the veritas pmv11 and chip breaker and have been very happy with it. The edge retention is very impressive and I am able to hone it with oil stones and charged strop. In my experience you don't really feel a wire edge with it like the traditional irons...it is more like a rolled edge...that investment was 75.00 I believe and the plane performs great now...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michail Kyriazanos View Post

    I can find in many shops in Europe combos by Ron Hock and Veritas and also blades from Japanese steel, Kunz HSS and laminated Chinese HSS.


    Would you recommend something that you have seen working and be happy with?
    The Hock blades in O1 are excellent, and value priced.
    I believe they're sourced in France. If you sharpen by hand, they're tolerant of most any approach.

    The Veritas PM V-11 is amazing stuff. As mentioned above, the most difficult step is removing the wire edge formed while honing.

    I use a powered cotton buffing wheel to strop similar blades with mixed success (I have more familiarity with O1 steel). The very best finish I have ever achieved directly off a plane was with a similar blade made for me by David Weaver.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michail Kyriazanos View Post
    Hello everyone and happy new Year....
    Happy New Year!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michail Kyriazanos View Post
    ... I can find in many shops in Europe combos by Ron Hock and Veritas and also blades from Japanese steel, Kunz HSS and laminated Chinese HSS....
    Of those I'd choose the Hock O1 or the Veritas PMV-11, but honestly (most of) this advice has all been North America specific.

    I'm sure there are forges in the EU capable of making good irons, I just haven't heard of them. (E.g. Auriou & Liogier certainly could make them, but I have no evidence they do. Narex is competent, if not exactly high end, and could make an iron.) Good luck.

    A lot of Hock's production is done by a family forge in France, so hopefully a Hock iron will be distributed directly in the EU and won't have to cross the Atlantic twice.

    Another European made iron, though not out of the EU, would be the Ray Ilses irons. They are made in England for TFWW in the US. I don't know if they are special or carried by other vendors closer to you. (Nor do I recall ever seeing a review, other than Joel's on the TFWW site.)

  10. #10

    Pm-v11

    My experience with PM-V11 is different from many others here. I had a PM-V11 blade in a smoothing plane, and it tended to chip so I sent it back. Lee Valley sent me a replacement, and this one seems good, but not drastically superior to other blades that I have.

  11. #11
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    I have an old Stanley #4. I bought a Hock iron, but kept the original chipbreaker. It has turned out to be a great smoother. I use this and the Veritas bevel up smoother. Veritas for difficult wood, Stanley #4 for everything else. Both work great.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Michail Kyriazanos View Post
    Hello everyone and happy new Year.

    I missed a really good deal a couple of months back for a LN bronze no.4 for 160usd which would be my first really hi end plane. Since then Ive been thinking upgrading me Stanley no.4 Smoother with an aftermarket iron and cap and wait for the right moment to grab an LN.

    I can find in many shops in Europe combos by Ron Hock and Veritas and also blades from Japanese steel, Kunz HSS and laminated Chinese HSS.


    Would you recommend something that you have seen working and be happy with?
    Michall,

    I have not tried Kunz or Chinese HSS but I have used Hock, Veritas and Japanese bi-metal cutters. The Japanese irons work much better in a Stanley plane than the others simply because it is thin like the OEM cutter and takes a durable sharp edge. Most of my planes have Japanese iron if one is made for that plane and the Hock and Veritas set on the shelf.

    ken

  13. #13
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    Oct 2019
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    Thanks everyone for the new inputs


    UK seems to produce plane irons, no other European forge unfortunatelly. There are only rumors that Narex is going to start producing and sale, but nothing yet.


    Ken what japanese blade are you working with? do you have a link maybe? there are seem to be a few sellers in UK and EU but I dont know if they have the same source. Also do you use the Stanley chipbreaker with your iron or an upgrade?

    WorkshopHeaven sells Tsunesaburo Aogami irons 2.3mm thick, my no4 has 2mm iron
    Last edited by Michail Kyriazanos; 01-09-2021 at 11:21 AM.

  14. #14
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    Another vote for Hock. I invested in replacement iron for my Stanley #3 and an iron/chip breaker combination for my #7. I went with the O1 versions and have been very pleased. Note that these are quite a bit thicker than a standard Stanley iron. Your cap iron screw may not be long enough (my #3 barely fit) and the combined thickness of iron and chipbreaker may require a frog or mouth adjustment as was the case with my #7. These are simple adjustments but may require some precision filing of the mouth.

    This video (at 1:55) shows this process

    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  15. #15
    I've used the Veritas irons.

    Bear in mind you may have to file the throat a little to accomodate the thicker iron.

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