Dealing with Aging and Other Challenges

[Jim Matthews]

I've been having a lot of pain in the arm that I use for sawing dovetails.

Doctor called it 'tennis elbow'. He said to put a brace on it, but didn't have much else to suggest.

Two questions, before I make any suggestions...

How many dovetails do you cut, in a given session?

Relative to your waist, how high is the board - where you're cutting dovetails?

[Jim Matthews]

Unfortunately the science does not support the inflammation theory - where is the redness and swelling? Oh, it must be on the inside? Oh, OK, maybe, maybe not. The braces are impressive, what are they doing - how do they take pressure off? Maybe, maybe not. Physical therapy for something perhaps caused by too much physical activity? No pain no gain? Counterintuitive.

Say what now?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20351987

[Clifford McGuire]

Two questions, before I make any suggestions...

How many dovetails do you cut, in a given session?

Relative to your waist, how high is the board - where you're cutting dovetails?

Often a box or two's worth. So, four joints each, usually two tails. (sometimes three). So, I guess 8-16 tails and 8-16 pins.

I did add a Moxon vise that sits on my bench. Not home right now, but I would say about 40" above the ground. (32in bench + 6" Moxon + 2" board sticking above vise). I'm not tall (5'7").

[Tony Zaffuto]

With regards to some joint work, such as Dovetails, etc., as the pain caused me to shy away from building items, earlier this year I decided to use a DT jig. Though I have a mortise machine, I started using Dominos several years ago. My making things has returned!

[Mark Rainey]

Say what now?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20351987

Good to hear from you Jim, the issue of tennis elbow is just a side topic and not the main thrust of the OP's question. But it is related and important. I am glad you listed a reference. As an insider, I find those sites can be informative, but the sites are usually put up by public relations to draw in business. Most of us realize health care has turned into a business and revenue generation is the priority. Patient care suffers. Nortin Hadler, MD, a Professor of Rheumatology at the University of North Carolina, has written extensively on this area. He has published several peer reviewed papers and medical texts on this subject. He has also written books for lay people which I highly recommend. And he is a world renowned, brilliant and honest physician. In Occupational Musculoskeletal Disorders, (2005), Hadler states " Unfortunately, there is a contract between medicine and American Society that thwarts "patience and maturity" and predisposes one to choose unproved remedies despite incurring discomfort, risk, and expense. Progressive, structured exercising is often advised in America, whereas it is proscribed ( condemned ) in Britain. Zeal for antiimflammatory medications, intralesional injections, orthotics ( tennis elbow straps ), and the last resort of surgery all have primacy in the American mind. ...I no longer offer intralesional steroid injection as a therapeutic alternative. In fact science supports reassurance, biomechanics advice, and patience as optimal therapy"

Jim, this is an important discussion for me and if I can provide any more information, let me know. Mark

[Jim Matthews]

Often a box or two's worth. So, four joints each, usually two tails. (sometimes three). So, I guess 8-16 tails and 8-16 pins.

I did add a Moxon vise that sits on my bench. Not home right now, but I would say about 40" above the ground. (32in bench + 6" Moxon + 2" board sticking above vise). I'm not tall (5'7").

That's ambitious, but should be in your range on a given day (unless you're sawing something really hard).

We're about the same height, and when my elbow is bent at 90 degrees, my hand is 45" above the floor.
***Standing upright, with your elbow at your side - bent at 90 degrees - how high is your middle finger off the floor?***

If your saw is a little dull, or the board is thick, you might have a tight grip on the handle.
***Are you satisfied with the sharpness of your saw? Do you wax or oil the sawplate to avoid drag?***

The closer the cut is to your centerline, the more your wrist must flex to keep the saw square to the board face.***Do you shift over to the next cutting, or just move the saw?***

Back when I still played tennis, I was often coached to hold on with only the last three fingers to avoid a "death grip". ***Having not seen your technique, where is your index finger on the handle?***

The last bit involves some heresy - are you chopping out the waste at the bench, using a mallet?

Mortising by hand absolutely wrecks my elbow.
I can do it - but it takes days to recover. If you're already sore by the time you pick up a mallet, you're subjecting an inflamed joint to a sharp shock.

I use a small coping saw to get close to the baseline, and a trim router to cleanup. Recently I heard a suggestion to cut a third sawcut in the waste down to the baseline and pare the waste without coping. This has promise, but I haven't tried it.

***
A small trim router allows depth control while removing waste while maintaining the visual appeal of handsawn dovetails. After cutting both sides of the pin or tail - cope the waste as before.

Keep the board upright, and clamp a support cleat even with the endgrain of the dovetail. It should look like a shelf. Derek's furniture building section has a modified Moxon rear chop that would be ideal.

A fine straight bit set to the depth of the baseline is used to remove the same part you would otherwise chop out. (It shouldn't be much.) Pare to clear the tight corners a round bit can't reach.

It's a lot to take in, but I would start with setting the top of the board you intend to cut to the height of your elbow with your arm at your side. If your arms are the sale length as mine, a little higher might help.

[Jim Matthews]

Good to hear from you Jim, this is an important discussion for me and if I can provide any more information, let me know. Mark

I have sent a lengthy, sympathetic yet challenging PM.

[Mark Rainey]

I have sent a lengthy, sympathetic yet challenging PM.

Thanks Jim, I will read it! Mark

[Bobb Babcock]

I'm in the process of outfitting a retirement shop this summer in the face of multiple 68 year old problems. I'm going to utilize magnetic guides for dovetails and joinery to counteract hand tremors and drop-itis. I recently bought a soft-faced Vaughn mallet and found it too heavy at a weight
i would have consider a toy once. Also poorly balanced hammers put significant strain on arthritic wrists and tendons, choke up a lot or give to a younger woodworker with three kids. I'm converting to the poly surfaced round carver mallet for shock reduction and the way the handle sits up rather than lays down.

I use the common tweezers that you squeeze to open. The kind that often come in sets with wooden pads around about 5" long with some bent tips. Also I added reacher grabbers (my name for the wands with jaws and a trigger grip) to my home and shop. The one in the shop is heavy duty and really comes in handy.

An arm chair that is strong to get out of the darn thing when a mortise calls. I added a suspended wood top to a discounted red metal rolling mechanics toolbox as a place to use bench top tools. It was suspended to allow edge clamping. The tools were too noisy and messy so now it contains all my prized hand tools and the top is a mobile workstation or a parts cart at my side. It follows me around like a good dog!

The last item is a step stool. I'm going to knock one out of 2x12 for the new shop and add a removable support arm to test it out. I think the idea is called a library stool. Bending over to pickup a stool is barely worth it. This eliminates high shelves and hooks of any real utility.

There is the personal challenges as well. Never give up using hand tools. My grandmother baked bread her whole life even when store bought bread was a norm. She said if she didn't knead warm bread her hands would stop working. She was right and her cinnamon rolls would have graced Buckingham Palace. So much for store bought bread!

Acceptance of reality is another factor. I could pick up a VW too now I can't change the tire!

[Curt Putnam]

Just do not forget that the older you get, the better you were.

[Mike Allen1010]

Great idea – I’m finding this thread really helpful.

Biggest accommodation to aging for me is focusing on lighter, hand tool friendly, soft woods!! Hardwoods are heavier, tougher for me to move around and perhaps most challenging, a ton of work to hand plane. Recently completed fairly large project in Beech and surfacing panels was a real effort. I don’t mind an effort, but this wasn’t very fun. Lots of huffing and puffing, sweating and sharpening – UGG!

Conversely working with mahogany, walnut, pine etc. is still a real joy. With these woods, I feel like technique and tools can still provide an advantage versus physical strength. I don’t know how people like Derek who work in super hard/tropical lumber do it - my hats off to you. That’s my story and I’m sticking with it.

Cheers, Mike

[Bill Carey]

Regarding cutting out the waste with a trim router: I saw the value in one of Derek's suggestions and came up with this:
20200301_114024.jpg 20200301_114032.jpg
it allows the round bit to cut all the way to the back.

I also found that, for me, having the cut several inches above my elbow was optimum. Got a new Bontz saw with a hang angle (32 degrees) that is less than the Bad Axe, and I find it more comfortable to use. After cutting these in a long, long day, I had only minimal wrist discomfort. Completely routing out the waste is a big time saver as well as minimizing the pain experienced by failing, out of warranty, parts.
20200912_172858.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

The saw is beautiful.

jtk

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks Curt for the thread – great idea. I've learned a lot.

At the risk of oversimplifying, the single best thing I've done to accommodate my physical limitations due to aging is focused on using hand tool friendly, soft woods! I recently completed a fairly large project in beech. Surfacing large panels was not very fun! In fact, it was a ton of work that required lots of huffing and puffing, multiple sharpening breaks, and frankly at some point "I'll just try and come back tomorrow". For me, dense, heavy hardwoods are difficult to move around the shop and to plane large services. Sawing and joinery is still fairly doable.

Conversely, working with hand tool friendly species like mahogany, Walnut, pine etc. is still a true joy! In these circumstances IMHO experience, technique and sharp tools can more than compensate for lack of physical strength. That's my story and I'm sticking with it!

Cheers, Mike

[Clifford McGuire]

I've been having a lot of pain in the arm that I use for sawing dovetails.

Doctor called it 'tennis elbow'. He said to put a brace on it, but didn't have much else to suggest.

Clifford, he is correct. The pain comes from an inflamed extensor tendon. Lifting you arm (to saw) stretches the tendon.

The fix is to immobilise the tendon by putting pressure on the area. Pressure comes from a brace. Something like this ...



A physio can also supply exercises to strengthen the area. It will go away with rest and strengthening exercises.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Since this thread has come back around, I want to report that I did pick up a band for my tennis elbow and it has made a huge difference.

I still need to make an appointment for physical therapy. But in the 4-6 months it will take to get an appointment, the band has me back in the woodshop!