Picked up a used Shaper - looking for advice on tooling, etc.

[Kevin Jenness]

You could have a machinist make up the parts but may not save much. Try posting on Woodweb. At least you don't have a lot sunk into the machine (yet). Worst case it can serve as a base for a new workbench. Caveat emptor!

[Jared Sankovich]

I called SCM this morning and talked to a person in parts and made a little bit of headway on trying to find a spindle nut and washer. Apparently, records of a 1” spindle for the T100 don’t exist in their system. Only 3/4”, 30mm, and 1 1/4”. I asked him to cross reference a similar era T110 spindle and see if part numbers matched up and apparently the 1 1/4” spindle for both the T100 and T110 are the same part number...whether they are actually the same part / interchangeable is still unclear. They do not stock the 1 1/4” spindle itself - no availability, price, etc. However there is an option for 1” spindle / parts for the T110. Is that the same spindle I have on my T100? Not sure, but he sent me copies of both manuals via email that I will study later on today.

He did say that there was stock in Italy of the spindle nut and washer for the top of the 1” spindle for the T110 and that the washer was $230 and the nut was $1xx, I forgot the exact number....I knew any parts from them would be high, but that sounds a bit outrageous.

Ideally, I would find a used 1 1/4” spindle with all nuts/washers included and not have to pay nearly $400 for 2 small pieces of hardware for a less than ideally sized spindle that I plan to upgrade anyway. The hammer price at the auction for the machine was $400. Obviously l didn’t realize from the photos, lack of description that there wasn’t a nut and washer included with the spindle. Live and burn, I suppose.

Anybody have any other sources for hardware like this? Is there an SCM / Minimax owners group website or anything of the like where I might find other owners who may have extra parts laying around?

Measure the od of the spindle threads and the pitch (or distance crest to crest)

Let me know what the measurement it is. Its a $20 part not a $400.. I'll be shocked if its not available elsewhere. It is isnt ill offer to machine one for the cost shipping.

[Mike Kees]

Phillip I bought a nut off of Mc-master -Carr for my Invicta shaper. I have a thread size gauge and used it to figure out size. The nut is the right size but the threads on my spindle are cut deeper so now I am going to look for a tap to clean out the threads in the nut. All in this should be $50 or less.

[Warren Lake]

Ive ordered nuts from SCM for one machine and got a few extras. Different than a nut for these machines more like a giant screw that goes into the spindle. Likely about 65.00 each going by memory. Took a while to get them as well.

Id check with machinery dealers some of the auction guys at least one also had tons of parts of all kinds and sometimes scrap machines for parts. One of them up here had parts but is retired now and lost touch last heard he was moving.

I could tell you auction stories for hours. seen some bad stuff over the years.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Measure the od of the spindle threads and the pitch (or distance crest to crest)

Let me know what the measurement it is. Its a $20 part not a $400.. I'll be shocked if its not available elsewhere. It is isnt ill offer to machine one for the cost shipping.

Wow, thanks Jared! I will get back to you on this.

I was reading a thread somewhere the other day...practical machinist maybe? where someone was hired to make a new spindle nut for an older SCM shaper - I think it was a T120 - and the consensus was the the spindle / nut threading didn’t match any thread gauges he had and was apparently something proprietary to SCM, but there never was a resolution in the thread. I’m pretty inexperienced when it comes to metal working, so take this with a grain of salt.

[Mike Kees]

Reducing bushings are in the mail.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Reducing bushings are in the mail.

Thanks Mike!

Here’s another newbie question to the group - how do I remove the spindle if I don’t have the proper spindle wrench? It may come to me sending the existing 1” spindle off to a machinist in order to get a new 1 1/4” spindle fabricated.

I don’t really have metal machining skills or tools; I have seen where folks have made their own wrenches when the OEM spindle wrench was MIA. Regardless, I will need to remove the 1” spindle at some point to replace it with a 1 1/4”.

[Kevin Jenness]

The oem wrenches are a piece of pipe with teeth cut on the end to match the spindle collar and holes at the top for a tommy bar. Shouldn't be too hard to have one made.

This thread illustrates the perils of buying through an internet auction. The shaper may be a workhorse and a relative bargain once all the issues are sorted, but the missing and broken parts will take time, money and aggravation to source, and would have been identified with in-person inspection. Pay now or pay later. I would buy sight unseen from someone I knew and trusted, otherwise only something I can lay my hands on.

Let us know how you make out on having a spindle fabricated. I suspect it will be expensive. I would use the machine as is and look for a good unit with a 1 1/4" spindle. The 1" will serve you well enough for starters and you may wind up with more than one shaper anyway, or trade up from this one.

[Mike Kees]

Phillip I agree with Kevin, I think that I would just use the machine with the one inch spindle. A few more T bushings for a stacked cutter set up would still be way cheaper than getting a spindle made. Power that thing up and use it for a while before committing to anything else.(Upgrades to this spindle, etc.) That is still a well built machine with a heavy spindle cartridge and sizable bearings supporting that spindle. As far as buying sight unseen and the extra work/hassle of getting everything figured out. I always look at how much money a new unit would have cost compared to where I ended up ,yes sometimes the hidden costs add up but I have always so far ended up way cheaper than new.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I certainly knew the risks with buying sight unseen machines via online auctions and have a contingency plan / fund that suits. It’s like you said, Kevin - you always pay for it somehow and eventually in time, money, sweat and/or a combination of them when acquiring new to you machines. It’s easier for me to budget those costs spread out over a bit more time by buying an older machine that likely needs some TLC or has some missing pieces to track down. It’s a slow approach, but luckily I’m not in a position where I need the machine functional right now and can slowly ease it into the workflow. I can see upgrading to a larger 1 1/4” machine in time, so thanks for the reality check of not sinking too much into this one. I still need to wire a plug and turn it on to make sure it sounds ok and it doesn’t need bearings, etc.

[David Sochar]

I see a set of smooth edge split collars that will hod 'shaper steel' knives. You show a pair of bead making knives. The collar with the bearing is placed first, then the two knives, then the top collar, then spacers and then spindle nut. Do not exceed 5,000 rpm and have a nice chink of 8/4 between you and the knives on start up. I was told that they throw knives on start up and shut down.

I also see a lock edge knife with the deep machined edges. These will work in your collars, but a lock edge collar is much safer. Look at the Charles G G Schmidt catalog - they still sell this type of tooling. I bought a shaper like your, but got the tooling with it. Combined with the knives I got from the shop I apprenticed at, I have about 4,000 patterns I can run.

Replace that casting. A good feeder, well mounted is a wonderful thing. You do not want to fiddle with a clamp for every time you set the thing.

Consider replacing the spindle with 1-1/4". It is the shop standard, and while bushing will work, there is nothing better than the bigger spindle. My SCM has a 1" and 1-1/4", and I have never used the 1" spindle - in 30 years.

As a big fan of the IRS auction site, I think at times I can spot hints at why the company is no longer. Just clip that there, take the wire over here, and wrap this, then kick the motor, and hit the spindle - and you are ready to run. While the other guy reaches down and flips the switch, and is running.

[Mel Fulks]

I've always used the smooth ( non edge-lock) ball bearing collars either side up. Never seen any advice against that.
The lock- edge type is prohibited for up and down use. But sometimes if you have a two direction shaper you can just turn
them upside down. But you MUST use two spindle nuts.

[Warren Lake]

not looking but I probably posted some info on those heads speed based on talking to the other manufacturer. Mel why do you think the up and down thing being prohibited. The knives are not supposed to come out the side with the allen screw and maybe that is why. Even so that would still be safer than the slip edge or smooth.

Ive run it with the knives extending out the the allen screw a number of times as that was how it came with some of the knives ive used or just tweaked them to what I need. Manufacturer stated maximum RPM is 3,500. Know you have run higher than that. The biggest thing is how far the knives are in the head as it changes the force on the knife.

On buying machines what has worked best for me is old guys who bought stuff new, used it all their lives then either they want you to buy their stuff or they pass and years later their wives call and ask you to buy the machines. You get a non abused machine that was owned by real guys and not cannibals. If I take the combos they probably each came with 20 pieces that the machine came with, often missing in many auction machines. Using the machines is always special considering as they came from people you respected. Do have enough auction stuff as well.

[Mel Fulks]

Yes ,it's because the end with the screw is just a lot weaker. I've used that end only on short projections, like a bead.
3500 RPMS....soon they will want you to wrap a string around the collars and pull the cord !!

[Warren Lake]

I have those strings on my Mitts. Helps a lot and I never have to look for them anymore. I plan on ordering a full suit of armour off ebay. Maybe carbon fibre these days.

ive done exactly as you said, I have to wonder though the cutters that came with my heads they are not the best lengths and many are some or more are ground they had to come out that way. There is still a pin that locks the worm screw.

Reading i had done in the past downplayed the locking aspect and said the worm was as much about adjustment as keeping the knife in then it could not come out the solid side. Time to ask the manufacturers some questions if they will respond.

What as your understanding of the knife in the head. I was told half way or bit more then the manufacturer said fill the slot and the forces change in your favour.