Picked up a used Shaper - looking for advice on tooling, etc.

[brent stanley]

Hi Phillip, sorry for the delay, building a new shop and the days are full!

You've got a nice well respected mid sized machine there and the power feeder is great. I'll echo other suggestions to aim for 30mm or 1.25" tooling as you may upgrade one day. The combis are a great, economical option that do not sacrifice quality. The large one is the most capable of course, but the smaller uses knives you can get a couple of days faster through the mail than the ones for the larger combi. The chip limiting design of course is safer too.

A euroblock and a rebate block (or a combi) and 4-15mm adjustable groover will get you far and you can add a panel raiser later on if you need it. If you flush mount the combi (with a new spindle) you can tenon of course like I am doing here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CCchzvEj...d=48egta2s9l34
which is better than large tenon discs for smaller machines.

Check your runout, tram the spindle and get that Spindle Moulder Handbook....it'll really open your mind! Congrats on your deal!

B

I won this machine on IRS auctions recently and it just arrived today. The price of the machine / power feeder was below what I see most older 3/4” spindle Taiwanese machines going for without a feeder. I am mostly new to shapers, having used one a little in someone else’s shop, but not with enough experience to know the in and outs or the cutterhead options.

I’ve been doing a lot of online research and reading about various cutterhead options, setups, etc. There is so much information out there and different techniques and approaches to using shapers and what they can do that it’s a bit overwhelming to know where to start.

My goals / intention for the machine is to try and get my feet wet in the shaper ocean with something that is simple and stout enough to not need to upgrade immediately and still relatively affordable that gives me a handful of options for different cutting operations to see if it’s something that I want to dive deeper into. At this point I have about $750 into the machine / feeder after freight, taxes, etc. I realize that tooling can add up to many multiples higher than the cost of the machine. I’m looking to start acquiring tooling that is quality made, but offers me the best value for the relatively low volume that I do compared to a larger shop.

The cost of a really good router table / lift put me off for a long time and I figured why not just go straight to the shaper and skip the $$ router table. I am a small scale, professional woodworker with a relatively new business (3 years in) that mostly does custom furniture, custom timber framing, interior custom woodwork, and other one-off custom stuff but I’m looking to expand my capabilities into offering more small scale custom millwork (matching historical profiles, etc) as well as use the shaper for furniture / cabinet scale joinery, cut grooves/rabbets, and have the option to do template work with a bearing.

About the machine - it’s an SCM T100 (late 70s/early 80s vintage), 1” spindle, 5 HP motor with 3 wheel, 4 speed, 1 HP feeder. Both 3 phase, 220v. I have a 10hp Kay Phasemaster rotary phase converter that I run my Tannewitz table saw and same vintage SCM 20” planer with that currently has a single 30 amp receptacle coming out of it. My plan has been to find a used MLO 3 phase panel with breakers already in it and have multiple circuits of various amperage coming off the RPC, but I haven’t found all the parts and pieces used yet...

Questions -

With the current 1” spindle should I just sleeve/bush out the spindle and begin to purchase 1 1/4” bore cutters / heads? If so, I’d appreciate hearing some details about the specifics of doing this, what I need and where the best place to buy from is.

The T100 apparently came with 3/4”, 1”, and 1 1/4” OEM spindle options. I have a WTB here and on OWWM for 1 1/4” spindle for this machine but no bites so far. Wondering if a more common 1 1/4” spindle from the newer T110 will fit or be a different spindle?

There doesn’t appear to be a nut for the top of the spindle anywhere with the machine. What are my options here?

What are the 2 items in the photos below that fit on the spindle? One of them is smaller diameter, is tapered on one side and looks like a spacer of sorts. The other is larger in diameter and spins like a large bearing, but has some angled grooves/slots on side (rub collar?)

Ive been reading a lot about Euroblock cutterheads, specifically attention to Brent’s posts and videos about the Whitehill Combi head and it looks interesting. Is this a good option for me and/or is there another similar option that is similar in performance and quality? Any opinions on where to start with a Euroblock head?

Are the handful of included knives practically useful to me and what cutterhead do they fit in?

I have yet to plug the machine or the feeder in and run anything. It was very well packed for LTL freight and arrived safely with no damage. I did notice in person (but not in the auction photos) that the casting for the vertical travel of the power feeder was damaged at one point and had a large chunk missing. There is a C clamp in that spot. Wondering if this will make it a pain to setup the feeder to different heights or not. Any tips on setting up the feeder to feed properly are appreciated; that’s new to me.

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[Kevin Jenness]

Philip, one thing you might do is try to find a shop with a T110 in your area and compare your spindle to theirs, assuming you can get it out. That would at least give you some options on parts. The 110 is a fairly common model, and you might be able to get a lead from an SCMI dealer. Have you tried posting on Woodweb?

I hope I didn't come off as overly negative. If the guts of the machine are good and you can find the parts you need it will work out. I have been in your shoes before and have spent a fair bit of time fluffing up machines that I wound up replacing in the end. Best of luck.

[Patrick Kane]

Not sure if the OP solved this, but his machine is for sale on woodweb and the guy has a 1-1/4" spindle. Maybe worth seeing if you can purchase the spindle, or asking him to have the nut measures to copy it.

SCM Invincible Shaper with 1" and 1 1/4" spindles : WOODWEB's Machinery Exchange

[Phillip Mitchell]

Not sure if the OP solved this, but his machine is for sale on woodweb and the guy has a 1-1/4" spindle. Maybe worth seeing if you can purchase the spindle, or asking him to have the nut measures to copy it.

SCM Invincible Shaper with 1" and 1 1/4" spindles : WOODWEB's Machinery Exchange

Thanks for the heads up Patrick. I didn’t see that initially; I talked to the seller and he’s reluctant to sell just the spindle at this point. I would be too if I was selling, but you never know how things play out.

[Jared Sankovich]

Thanks for the heads up Patrick. I didn’t see that initially; I talked to the seller and he’s reluctant to sell just the spindle at this point. I would be too if I was selling, but you never know how things play out.

I'd be curious to see if they are similar to the larger machines with the mt5 taper.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I'd be curious to see if they are similar to the larger machines with the mt5 taper.

When I find some free time, I’m going to make a simple spindle wrench and attempt to remove this 1” spindle. I’ll report back on the taper. I’ve talked to a few different used equipment resellers inquiring about spindles that seem to think it may be a mt3, but no way to know for sure until I get it out.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Mild update: I installed a plug this afternoon (came with a clipped cord) and fired it up. Both speeds work well and I don't hear the bearings making noise, which seems like a positive. Spins up fast and winds down slow and smooth.

I also set up the dial indicator and checked the spindle for runout. It's a cheap indicator, but it was barely moving the needle (.0005") so another good omen.

I have some dial calipers and a thread pitch gauge on the way to check dimensions on the existing 1" spindle in hopes to try and track down a suitable spindle nut replacement (McMaster Carr hopefully?)

Question - the OEM nut is mostly round with 2 flats on it. Will I be able to find an appropriately sized nut made like that or will a hex nut of the proper size and threads be fine?

What else do I need to properly mount and run a cutterhead on this spindle? The actual threads for the spindle nut are roughly 1 5/8” tall worth of thread. There is also a threaded section that goes down into the very top middle of the spindle; I didn't measure that yet, but it looks like it accepts some sort of cap screw? Do I need any sort of washer between the bottom of the spindle nut and any spacers that I have stacked up. Remember that I'm pretty much new to shapers, so apologies - I know these are terribly fundamental questions. I have The Spindle Moulder Handbook - Stephenson on order. Hopefully it will arrive soon - the mail is so unpredictable these days.

I talked to SCM - USA and Canada on the phone a few times and did manage to obtain a digital copy of the spare parts manual for this machine. It does not even list a 1" spindle as an option for this machine. There are several pages of different types of spindles and I can't quite tell if the one I have is represented in the manual or not. I have been diligently searching for a used 1 1/4" spindle for this machine, so far in vain. I would like to at least get the current spindle sorted out enough to put it to use.

I appreciate the advice!

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[brent stanley]

You'll need a stack of spacers of varying height so you can clamp down blocks of different height, no washer is typically used. Consider getting two nuts so you can jam them for added security when reversing. Can you show a picture of the threaded section you mentioned? What's the diameter?

B

[Kevin Jenness]

That's good news on the startup. If you can find a stock nut to fit the spindle threads a hex nut will be fine, just get a proper fitting wrench for it.

If you can't find one and can't get one made for a reasonable cost, you might try using an unthreaded counterbored cap on the spindle using the existing thread in the top of the spindle. That's how the Felder spindles I have seen are secured. Your hole looks rather small, but you could enlarge and retap it. I have a similar setup on my Northwood shaper and it works fine, You just have to use the appropriate combination of spacers to stay within the counterbore height. I am guessing a cap could be made for less than a custom nut, but I could be wrong. It should have flats for a wrench.

In any case, once you have a way to tighten down on the cutters you need a set of 1" spacers and a pair of 1" to 1 1/4" t-bushings. A washer under the nut is a good idea to prevent wear on the machined spacer ends, and it should be keyed to the spindle if running in reverse. You may need some sleeve bushings for multi-piece cutter sets the t-bushings won't accommodate. A set of graduated plastic shims is useful for adjusting cope and stick sets. The shims and bushings should be available from Tools Today or Charles G. G .Schmidt.

[Warren Lake]

anyone aware of torque specs for spindle nuts depending on shaft sizes. Not as relevant for solid body cutters but for the split collars like with this shaper it becomes more so, want a range but not over tighten as more or maybe too much pressure on the knives in the collars.

I asked SCM and one other in the past but no numbers.

[Mike Kees]

Did the T bushings I sent make it there yet ? I purchased new spacer bushings from Tools today to complete the set needed for my last shaper.

[Phillip Mitchell]

That's good news on the startup. If you can find a stock nut to fit the spindle threads a hex nut will be fine, just get a proper fitting wrench for it.

If you can't find one and can't get one made for a reasonable cost, you might try using an unthreaded counterbored cap on the spindle using the existing thread in the top of the spindle. That's how the Felder spindles I have seen are secured. Your hole looks rather small, but you could enlarge and retap it. I have a similar setup on my Northwood shaper and it works fine, You just have to use the appropriate combination of spacers to stay within the counterbore height. I am guessing a cap could be made for less than a custom nut, but I could be wrong. It should have flats for a wrench.

In any case, once you have a way to tighten down on the cutters you need a set of 1" spacers and a pair of 1" to 1 1/4" t-bushings. A washer under the nut is a good idea to prevent wear on the machined spacer ends, and it should be keyed to the spindle if running in reverse. You may need some sleeve bushings for multi-piece cutter sets the t-bushings won't accommodate. A set of graduated plastic shims is useful for adjusting cope and stick sets. The shims and bushings should be available from Tools Today or Charles G. G .Schmidt.

Kevin, Thanks for the detailed reply. I will report back with my findings once I get the dial indicator and thread pitch gauge and measure the spindle. It doesn’t look like there is a slot in the spindle for the tab of a washer to fit into. I don’t think this machine has a reverse option, for what it’s worth.

I actually have a set of plastic shims from C G.G. Schmidt that showed up with the lock edge cutters. Fellow forum member Mike Kees has kindly mailed me a few extra T bushings that he didn’t need with his current shaper setups. I just need to order some spacers and figure out the spindle nut / washer situation.

Looking at some old lock edge collar Schmidt tooling online it became immediately apparent that the 3” diameter lock edge collar cutterhead that showed up with the machine is only half of the cutterhead setup. I only have the bottom (or top?) - smooth edge side of the cutterhead and not the side that the lock edge engages into. I’m way less confused about how it works now that I’ve seen the actual setup. I think it was in the Oella Saw website that has a lot of older lock edge collar cutterheads listed for sale. I wasn’t really planning on using it any time soon, but I now know what it’s supposed to look like.

Thanks again for all the details.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Did the T bushings I sent make it there yet ? I purchased new spacer bushings from Tools today to complete the set needed for my last shaper.

Haven’t seen anything yet, Mike. The mail has been extremely unreliable / delayed here for months; I’ve assumed that this has been the case everywhere due to the pandemic.

[Warren Lake]

Oella Last time I checked and emailed them about it they had a lot of lock edge photos appearing to be for sale then most of them were not even there. Why run your ads that way? Never looked since.

[Joe Jensen]

I have purchased a lot of used cutters on ebay. Odella Saw sells sharpened ones. Over the course of a couple years I now have 1/8" - 3/4" cove and roundover. I bought those so I have them on hand when I need them. I also purchased expensive insert tooling for the cabinet door cutters and panel raisers, and groovers. I have to say the larger diameter insert cutters leave a better finish than the smaller diameter cutters I used to buy. My advice, don't buy expensive cutters until you know you will need them.