Picked up a used Shaper - looking for advice on tooling, etc.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I won this machine on IRS auctions recently and it just arrived today. The price of the machine / power feeder was below what I see most older 3/4” spindle Taiwanese machines going for without a feeder. I am mostly new to shapers, having used one a little in someone else’s shop, but not with enough experience to know the in and outs or the cutterhead options.

I’ve been doing a lot of online research and reading about various cutterhead options, setups, etc. There is so much information out there and different techniques and approaches to using shapers and what they can do that it’s a bit overwhelming to know where to start.

My goals / intention for the machine is to try and get my feet wet in the shaper ocean with something that is simple and stout enough to not need to upgrade immediately and still relatively affordable that gives me a handful of options for different cutting operations to see if it’s something that I want to dive deeper into. At this point I have about $750 into the machine / feeder after freight, taxes, etc. I realize that tooling can add up to many multiples higher than the cost of the machine. I’m looking to start acquiring tooling that is quality made, but offers me the best value for the relatively low volume that I do compared to a larger shop.

The cost of a really good router table / lift put me off for a long time and I figured why not just go straight to the shaper and skip the $$ router table. I am a small scale, professional woodworker with a relatively new business (3 years in) that mostly does custom furniture, custom timber framing, interior custom woodwork, and other one-off custom stuff but I’m looking to expand my capabilities into offering more small scale custom millwork (matching historical profiles, etc) as well as use the shaper for furniture / cabinet scale joinery, cut grooves/rabbets, and have the option to do template work with a bearing.

About the machine - it’s an SCM T100 (late 70s/early 80s vintage), 1” spindle, 5 HP motor with 3 wheel, 4 speed, 1 HP feeder. Both 3 phase, 220v. I have a 10hp Kay Phasemaster rotary phase converter that I run my Tannewitz table saw and same vintage SCM 20” planer with that currently has a single 30 amp receptacle coming out of it. My plan has been to find a used MLO 3 phase panel with breakers already in it and have multiple circuits of various amperage coming off the RPC, but I haven’t found all the parts and pieces used yet...

Questions -

With the current 1” spindle should I just sleeve/bush out the spindle and begin to purchase 1 1/4” bore cutters / heads? If so, I’d appreciate hearing some details about the specifics of doing this, what I need and where the best place to buy from is.

The T100 apparently came with 3/4”, 1”, and 1 1/4” OEM spindle options. I have a WTB here and on OWWM for 1 1/4” spindle for this machine but no bites so far. Wondering if a more common 1 1/4” spindle from the newer T110 will fit or be a different spindle?

There doesn’t appear to be a nut for the top of the spindle anywhere with the machine. What are my options here?

What are the 2 items in the photos below that fit on the spindle? One of them is smaller diameter, is tapered on one side and looks like a spacer of sorts. The other is larger in diameter and spins like a large bearing, but has some angled grooves/slots on side (rub collar?)

Ive been reading a lot about Euroblock cutterheads, specifically attention to Brent’s posts and videos about the Whitehill Combi head and it looks interesting. Is this a good option for me and/or is there another similar option that is similar in performance and quality? Any opinions on where to start with a Euroblock head?

Are the handful of included knives practically useful to me and what cutterhead do they fit in?

I have yet to plug the machine or the feeder in and run anything. It was very well packed for LTL freight and arrived safely with no damage. I did notice in person (but not in the auction photos) that the casting for the vertical travel of the power feeder was damaged at one point and had a large chunk missing. There is a C clamp in that spot. Wondering if this will make it a pain to setup the feeder to different heights or not. Any tips on setting up the feeder to feed properly are appreciated; that’s new to me.

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[Phillip Mitchell]

Here’s some more photos.

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[David Sochar]

I see a set of smooth edge split collars that will hod 'shaper steel' knives. You show a pair of bead making knives. The collar with the bearing is placed first, then the two knives, then the top collar, then spacers and then spindle nut. Do not exceed 5,000 rpm and have a nice chink of 8/4 between you and the knives on start up. I was told that they throw knives on start up and shut down.

I also see a lock edge knife with the deep machined edges. These will work in your collars, but a lock edge collar is much safer. Look at the Charles G G Schmidt catalog - they still sell this type of tooling. I bought a shaper like your, but got the tooling with it. Combined with the knives I got from the shop I apprenticed at, I have about 4,000 patterns I can run.

Replace that casting. A good feeder, well mounted is a wonderful thing. You do not want to fiddle with a clamp for every time you set the thing.

Consider replacing the spindle with 1-1/4". It is the shop standard, and while bushing will work, there is nothing better than the bigger spindle. My SCM has a 1" and 1-1/4", and I have never used the 1" spindle - in 30 years.

As a big fan of the IRS auction site, I think at times I can spot hints at why the company is no longer. Just clip that there, take the wire over here, and wrap this, then kick the motor, and hit the spindle - and you are ready to run. While the other guy reaches down and flips the switch, and is running.

[Mel Fulks]

I think it all looks good. The pic showing ,apparently used shaper collars is the ONLY online one I have ever seen that
does not show lines and distortions from use by incompetant users. I have too many redundant shaper posts to write
any more. They are all good!

[Jared Sankovich]

Buy a 40x100 euroblock, a rebate head, and maybe a adjustable groover. That would cover a lot. If you plan on running any custom moulding get a corrugated head. Its just not worth getting custom 40mm knives, vs corrugated steel. Id get 1.25 bores and bush up with the expectation that you will have a 1.25" spindle (or a 2nd machine) eventually.

There should be a tabbed washer in addition to the spindle nut to allow reverse rotation. The nut should be a std metric pitch.

I didn't notice that broken part on the feeder in the listing photos... that is irritating.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Buy a 40x100 euroblock, a rebate head, and maybe a adjustable groover. That would cover a lot. If you plan on running any custom moulding get a corrugated head. Its just not worth getting custom 40mm knives, vs corrugated steel. Id get 1.25 bores and bush up with the expectation that you will have a 1.25" spindle (or a 2nd machine) eventually.

There should be a tabbed washer in addition to the spindle nut to allow reverse rotation. The nut should be a std metric pitch.

I didn't notice that broken part on the feeder in the listing photos... that is irritating.

Thanks Jared. Very helpful. Do you have any brand preferences when it comes to the tooling you recommended?

[Phillip Mitchell]

Mel and Warren,

Thank you guys for the discussions on safety, etc. It’s helping me and I’m sure will help other uninitiated in the future that stumble on this thread looking for answers.

Seems like the lock edge head with the bearing could be somewhat useful if everything was tip top and set up properly, but I don’t know enough at this point to trust myself setting it up correctly and will likely set it aside for later when I have more experience.

In my first post, the last couple photos show a smaller diameter piece of steel that fits over the spindle. Is this simply a spacer? Given the height of the spindle, would it do me well to have a handful of similar spacers to help get whatever cutter / head I’m using up closer to the threads on the spindle? What’s a good source for spacers of this bore?

Thanks again!

[Mel Fulks]

Yeah,spacers. Schmidt would certainly have them. And I guess lots of other places, easy to buy stuff that cant possibly
cause a guy to get hurt and start suing ! Never use more spacers UNDER the cutter head than needed for that specific
job.

[Joe Jensen]

I have purchased a lot of used cutters on ebay. Odella Saw sells sharpened ones. Over the course of a couple years I now have 1/8" - 3/4" cove and roundover. I bought those so I have them on hand when I need them. I also purchased expensive insert tooling for the cabinet door cutters and panel raisers, and groovers. I have to say the larger diameter insert cutters leave a better finish than the smaller diameter cutters I used to buy. My advice, don't buy expensive cutters until you know you will need them.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Thanks Joe for the reply. My short list of cutterheads is a rebate block and adjustable groover at this point, based on what I expect to use the machine for.

Not much to update at this point: I ordered a dial caliper and thread pitch gauge about 3 weeks ago and have yet to receive them...the mail is a complete mess right now and everything seems either lost or massively delayed. My intent with getting these measuring tools is to precisely measure the existing spindle and threads and try and source a suitable spindle nut replacement. No luck in finding an OEM replacement in this 1” size as SCM doesn’t recognize 1” as stock spindle size for the T100.

I did receive my copy of the Spindle Moulder Handbook a few days ago and have thumbed through it and read parts of it so far. Seems like a great resource.

After seeing that the spindle wrench was available from SCM at a cost of $185, I fabricated my own out of some pipe hardware I got at the hardware store for about $12 in parts and an hour or so with an angle grinder and some drills bits. The disappointing news is that I’m unable to break the spindle loose. So far I’ve worked up to a 40” cheater bar (3/4” black pipe) slipped over my smaller 1/2” diameter bar. I’m about 90% sure I’m going the right way based on the way the spindle spins, spindle nut locks and what I’ve read online from others’ experience. Really only trying to remove it at this point to measure it with the dial calipers when they arrive so I can know what the taper is and possibly have more options for replacement with 1 1/4” when/if one shows up. It’s not even budging and is just bending my 1/2” rod. Is this a place for penetrating oil or should I just leave it alone?

Last question - for a cutterhead like a Euroblock that is 2” or so tall, can I use T bushings (one above and one below) with the empty space /no contact in the middle of the inside of the cutterhead bore or is it advisable to use the taller, sleeved style T bushings that provide more contact in the middle of the bore? Going to order some spacers from CCG Schmidt or Tools Today and wondering if I should get some of the taller, sleeved T bushings?

Thanks as always for the insight and advice!

[Kevin Jenness]

Definitely try penetrating oil. I have used PB Blaster, some swear by KRoil and some like acetone mixed with automatic transmission fluid. Give it some time, then try it. Some judiciously applied heat may help break it loose. Loose is ccw seen from above.

The t-bushings will be fine with the Euro block imo.

[brent stanley]

Hi Phillip, lots of folks will just use those T bushings top and bottom with smaller blocks, but I always add sleeves to the taller blocks. The unfortunate thing is it's generally frowned on to use bushings and adaptors with adjustable groovers and similar.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Thanks for the comments. Yes, I am turning the spindle collar counter clockwise viewed from above. No luck breaking it free yet.

Out of curiosity, why no bushings with adjustable groovers?

Ok, next dumb metal question - I measured the thread pitch of the spindle with the gauge that finally arrived. It’s 14 TPI; metric was close to 1.75, but not exact and 14 TPI was exact. I actually picked up a 1” 14 TPI grade 8 nut from the local hardware store when I was in there for something else a few weeks ago and noticed that it threaded on the spindle like it was the proper thread pitch, but it’s a bit loose once it’s on. Meaning that there is a small amount of play back and forth / side to side. I looked on McMaster Carr earlier this evening and have found several 1” 14 tpi nuts to choose from, but is there a chance that there’s a different thread standard (or some other variation?) between the hardware store grade 8 nut and the shaper spindle, even though it’s also 1” and 14 tpi? This seems like it should be simpler than it is, but for some reason I can’t get it properly sorted out yet....makes me think the current spindle was bastardized and isn’t OEM. What am I missing? One of these days the dial calipers I ordered will show up and I’ll have a more accurate way to measure these metal parts and pieces.

[Mel Fulks]

I wouldn't worry about it. The spindle nuts are usually pretty loose. It's possible that is intentional , as that would make
it tighten itself. But of course that bit of cleverness would not do much good with the smooth top and bottom type knife edges...
Might just give auto Bon Boyage to the knives as they take "the next flight out". When using the smooth at top and
bottom knives, tighten the nut with your fingers...NOT the wrench. Then try to move the two knives...with your fingers.
If you can not move the knives with your fingers, then tighten the nut with the wrench. Remember the steel knife bars
are sold in nominal sizes. There is no attempt to make all bars of a size work together. Any mixing of two bars to make
a "happy couple" must start with neither side trying to fly out of the marraige .

[Jared Sankovich]

Thanks for the comments. Yes, I am turning the spindle collar counter clockwise viewed from above. No luck breaking it free yet.

Out of curiosity, why no bushings with adjustable groovers?

Ok, next dumb metal question - I measured the thread pitch of the spindle with the gauge that finally arrived. It’s 14 TPI; metric was close to 1.75, but not exact and 14 TPI was exact. I actually picked up a 1” 14 TPI grade 8 nut from the local hardware store when I was in there for something else a few weeks ago and noticed that it threaded on the spindle like it was the proper thread pitch, but it’s a bit loose once it’s on. Meaning that there is a small amount of play back and forth / side to side. I looked on McMaster Carr earlier this evening and have found several 1” 14 tpi nuts to choose from, but is there a chance that there’s a different thread standard (or some other variation?) between the hardware store grade 8 nut and the shaper spindle, even though it’s also 1” and 14 tpi? This seems like it should be simpler than it is, but for some reason I can’t get it properly sorted out yet....makes me think the current spindle was bastardized and isn’t OEM. What am I missing? One of these days the dial calipers I ordered will show up and I’ll have a more accurate way to measure these metal parts and pieces.

There are 3 classes of thread fitment. A closser tolerance nut in 1-14 threads should be readily available. Though in this application I'm not sure if it matters.

https://www.accuratescrew.com/classes-of-thread/