To close the loop, your comments were very helpful along with the CT 26 vs Midi thread. I just ordered the Midi. Good start to 2021!Originally Posted by Charles P. Wright
[OP]
Contributor
To close the loop, your comments were very helpful along with the CT 26 vs Midi thread. I just ordered the Midi. Good start to 2021!
Contributor
for a small shop
what is benefits of BT?
I taped a remote control on my Festool, at end of hose, that starts and stops the vac, $30 type...
just so I dont have to reach to the ON OFF switch on the vac...
any other useful benefits?
[OP]
Contributor
I chose the Midi not for the Bluetooth feature ( although I think it’s pretty coolJ but for the following reasons (comparing it to the CT 26): smaller footprint, front control touch screen, lid that closes over the hose,cord holder on the back,
the way the filter is changed and it is less expensive. And I decided against the Festool separator after doing a lot of reading.
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Any advantage to BT is with the cordless tools that don't trigger the power automatically like corded tools do.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
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You will like it. You can blow out the HEPA filter and gain life. It takes many bags to cover the cost of a Dust Deputy
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Hooked up to a router, those bags will come quickly.
Member
besides not having to reach the switch, the BT will activate the vac when cordless Festool tools are powered up.any other useful benefits?
Doubt you'll find this to be a factoras you aren't likely to be changing the filter often or anytime soon.the filter is changed and it is less expensive.
No quicker than with a tracksaw . The same economics apply. A separator buys a lot of bags before paying for itself. If you're in professional seting , the customer is paying. If a hobbyist, buying a $700 vac and whining about a $5-$10 bag is not going to garner you a lot of sympathy.Hooked up to a router, those bags will come quickly.
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No whining here. At the end of those 30 bags, I am smiling, while all you will have is misery and disappointment. :^)
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Dave Sabo had a similar comment to me, in a current thread...
I demonstrated how the DD paid itself back in less than 5 months in bag costs for my use.
Obviously it did not influence his position, he must have stock in the bag manufacturersJJ
In addition to payback, its the convenience of replacing one DD for ever 3 or 4 FT bags.
Dave Sabo's position is accurate for low volume users who extract very little dust.
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Doug, I'm so impressed you are clarivoyant enough to divine my state of mind - especially as it pertains to thinking about someone's situation (whom I don't know) at some in the future. Hope I never play poker with you.
Will - I agree the seperator made some sense for your situaton, but you never answered my qustion as to why you didn't hook up your blade shroud to your central DC system and avoid the expense and complication of running a shop vac for collection there alltogether . I feel high volume situations warrant a more robust solution than a shop vac and a separator. But I recognize that your ideal may not be mine. I do think it telling that no voulme shop I've ever been in has shop vac hooked up to their saws. Perhaps it's an East Coast West Coast thing ?
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> you never answered my qustion as to why you didn't hook up your blade shroud to your central DC system and avoid the expense and complication of running a shop vac for collection there alltogether .
I thought I did answer that question... simple, my central Vac, the PFlux 2 was hooked to the bottom port of the TS. The PM2K has such horrible dust collection below the blade, that I could not run a Y off the PFlux and expect to have much suction left at the top. Instead, the FT grabbed the top and offered way more suction than a Y off the PFlux. For a jury rig system, it works pretty damn good. I get a little dust at the beginning of the cut. I also use a ZCI, which makes top dust even harder to control.
> I feel high volume situations warrant a more robust solution than a shop vac and a separator.
I have experimented with a lot of vac set ups through the years. Of course, I am not running a production shop with 40 employees... I am a one man shop that when loaded with work will hire a helper. While running duct everywhere seems ideal and unbeatable, I don't find this to always work out well. Yes, to stationary machines, that is a no brainer, we rarely see Shop Vacs hooked up to BS, TS, Jointer, etc. A 4-6" dust collector is designed for this.
I have run extended lines from my main dust collector overheard, down to 36mm lines for my FT track saw and routers. The friction losses even with a 5HP clear Vue was significant enough, whereas, the FT located very close to my track saw and my router had greater suction. The suction at the tool is more effective with the FT and DD. YMMV based on run distance. That is what represents value of these shop vacs,... i.e. they are CLOSE to the tool, so suction can be surprisingly good, and if using a HEPA vac, u have safe exhaust air, often better than the larger stationary vac unless u are exhausting outside. This is no advertisement for FT, I am sure Bosch, Fein, no different. I will be looking at those makes for future purchases.
I did mention in the other thread... I ran an experiment with the Pflxu2 vs FT. I ran the PFLUx 4" hose half way, then connected to a 36" hose. For the FT I ran a 50mm hose transitioned down to 36mm at the half way point. The total run was 20ft from machine to end of hose for both. I used a CFM meter to read the end of each hose... the FT won by about 30%. Yes, that took me by surprise as the 2HP Pflux pulls 4x the amps. As with all fan systems, they all are designed to do ONE thing well, and nothing more. Larger units are primarily for 4"+ hoses direct to stationary machines high volume of air, lower air velocity. They perform well. But when you throttle down the hose size, they have no tolerance for such and suction falls off a cliff. The real reasons behind this are way behind the scope of these threads... fan curves, static pressure, friction effects, all play a variable in some serious engineering to fully explain it. In my younger days, I could actually do these equations, today, I just test the two and do what works best.
> I do think it telling that no voulme shop I've ever been in has shop vac hooked up to their saws.
I have seen some multi million dollar cabinet shops with super high end equipment throughout, still have stations set up with FT tools, and dedicated FT vacs right next to the benches. So I would not agree that you never see this... yes, to stationary tools, of course... in my case I was simply trying to get MAX suction from the top of my TS spewing dust at me, and FT and DD was the best solution as explained above... it was fast to implement, and no new equipment was required.
Is this more clear?
Member
I said no shop vac atttached to saws - like your set up.
Let me be more specific and say they don't have them hooked up to their high volume stationary cutting tools rube goldberb style like you.
I'm also saying I think your way is daft for someone planning dust collection from the get go. Especially a high volume, high production situatiuon. Let me also say I would steer people away from any Laguna cyclone as they are great on the internet, less than great in the shop. This is the main reason you're in the vac attached to the saw guard situation in the first place. Happy there was a solution for you , but I cannot advocate telling a new guy to follow you down that path.
David will do what's best for him, and it appears he has chosen to bolster my stock portfolio and use bags.
Contributor
> Let me be more specific and say they don't have them hooked up to their high volume stationary cutting tools rube goldberb style like you.
I made it clear from my first post, the FT was only attached to the blade guard. TS produce so much dust, u do whatever is required. This method was the best I have experienced so far. I am sure on some TS, the dust collection is much better than the PM2K below the blade, i.e. less waste. That is the reason I am using two vac systems, NOT because of the Lag PFlux, its 2hp and right next to the TS, so plenty of suction. Sometimes the tool is to blame as their design is not efficient for dust collection.
Your comments on Laguna PFlux has been true so far, for me, but others have had excellent experience with the PFlux as discussed in previous post. I need to check the baffles at the bottom of the cyclone to see if this is a solution. Laguna tech support has tried to resolve it...time will tell.
I would not advocate anything specific for DC, as every shop set up is so different... the length of the runs, whether u exhaust outside, etc. Sometimes, it just takes some trial and error to find what works best for the small shop. Overall, my shop DC is superb, but I spend a lot of time getting it that way.
Hoping your stock portfolio rises as a result of this thread!
Member
People in this catageory are usually igorant to how a properly designed cyclone preforms , so have no real idea. To them, their cyclone performs better than what they had before (which wasn't very good) so they are happy.others have had excellent experience with the PFlux
Member
The bottom line is the dust level in the shop (as measured by a Dylos, say,) and the ergonomics of the operation. Not much else matters.
I would also include as an ergonomic advantage, not having the equivalent of a locomotive engine running in the corner of the shop. ;^)
And my dust control requirements are rather strict.
Last edited by Doug Dawson; 01-04-2021 at 11:33 AM.
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