learning pace / approach, and "cheating"

[Bob Riefer]

Well, from the pics above, it sure looks to me like you have the hang of things! I think they all look good!
Fred

Thanks Fred! Small potatoes compared to what I commonly see here, but happy to hear your kind words.

There's a fair amount of "saving" involved in some of these.. you know, a minor mistake covered up by wizardry in the next step. But as time has gone on, there's been more "foreseeing" and less "saving" needed each time. Which I think means it's time to keep practicing existing skills AND layering in the finishing learning and other efficiencies (aka Domino).

[Bob Riefer]

Jim - your point around shop furniture is a good one too.

My first time around setting up the shop, I went "fast and good enough" route. This allowed me to get into projects, stay interested and motivated, and learn what I like and what I don't like. Little by little, I now am replacing old jigs with nicer versions that suit my more-mature-than-before preferences.

Now, with my upcoming shop renovation happening (btw... it's happening!!!!!!!!! more about that soon in "workshops" area) I was thinking a few projects would be great skill builders and would also be constantly enjoyed over the years...

First - I will have a roughly 20 foot long wall to outfit, and plan to build out custom cabinets underneath, a counter top (TBD), and shelving / storage / clamp racks. I plan to use lumber (rather than plywood) for all of it so that I can gain a lot of practice on several techniques, as well as finishing.

Second - The reno will also enable my workbench to grow a little bit in size, AND allow me to walk on all sides while in a stationary/permanent location. So, I think I'm going to build a legit and hefty bench, including drawers underneath. Again, lots of good practice steps in this sort of project, and finishing practice too.

[Phil Mueller]

Your projects look great. Nice work. You will find it fun to stretch yourself on each project and try something a little different/new...keeps me interested. I too love the smores tray...great idea.

When it comes to finishing, I decided early on to pick a couple methods/materials and try to become very proficient at it. It gave me the confidence that when it came time to finish a project, I always had a finish I could rely on. Initially I choose two...Shellac and wipe on varnishes (watco, armrseal, waterlox, etc). Both semi fool proof. I find now that I can apply these without any anxiety. Several years later, I’m still trying to perfect French Polishing. Sometimes I nail it, sometimes it’s a miss. I’ll get it someday. Point is, it’s a finish I want for some projects, and I’m going to keep working on it. I’ve since experimented with other things, but buying and trying can be a bit costly...I take it one at a time.

I also decided early on (with a few exceptions) to avoid stain. I found wood that would be the color I wanted in the end (keeping in mind, Watco has a few color choices and I’ve used that to enhance/darken at times). It’s not always the perfect solution, but eliminates steps in the finish schedule and potential issues.

Carry on, you’re doing great.

[matt romanowski]

I'm a big reader/researcher, but in the end, I have to just get into doing things. You can read, understand, and visualize, but until you start cutting it's really not happening. I'm a bit odd in things too - I don't enjoy building large amounts of shop stuff, jigs, etc. I like building the things I want. But, everyone's journey is different. The outline and journey you outlined looks solid. If you're enjoying yourself, it's all good!

[Bob Riefer]

Your projects look great. Nice work. You will find it fun to stretch yourself on each project and try something a little different/new...keeps me interested. I too love the smores tray...great idea.

When it comes to finishing, I decided early on to pick a couple methods/materials and try to become very proficient at it. It gave me the confidence that when it came time to finish a project, I always had a finish I could rely on. Initially I choose two...Shellac and wipe on varnishes (watco, armrseal, waterlox, etc). Both semi fool proof. I find now that I can apply these without any anxiety. Several years later, I’m still trying to perfect French Polishing. Sometimes I nail it, sometimes it’s a miss. I’ll get it someday. Point is, it’s a finish I want for some projects, and I’m going to keep working on it. I’ve since experimented with other things, but buying and trying can be a bit costly...I take it one at a time.

I also decided early on (with a few exceptions) to avoid stain. I found wood that would be the color I wanted in the end (keeping in mind, Watco has a few color choices and I’ve used that to enhance/darken at times). It’s not always the perfect solution, but eliminates steps in the finish schedule and potential issues.

Carry on, you’re doing great.

Thanks Phil! And, I really like the idea of picking a couple finish approaches to focus on as my "go to" choices. And, I like "fool proof" because I'm admittedly on the fool side of the spectrum when it comes to finishing right now :-)

Adding "Shellac and wipe on varnishes (watco, armrseal, waterlox, etc)" to my research list. THANK YOU

[Cary Falk]

I started woodworking before I was in grade school. In high school I worked in a cabinet shop sanding and running the finish room. Woodworking is probably the only thing in life that doesn't stress me out. There are a million techniques that I haven't tried. I don't feel the need to do all of them. There are always things I would like to try but my list of things that need to get done outweighs my list of things I want to try. I don't stress about it it is all woodworking.

My learning consists of trying it. (I don't usually read a lot of books on any subject) I either see it through or in the interest of time go back to the old way to get the job done and retest at a later time. A well executed simple joint is better then a poorly executed complicated one. The learning journey is different for everybody. It sounds like you are stressing out too much about this. I am not sure what the hurry is to learn everything.

I don't feel like any tool to get the job done is "cheating". I often see debates by the hand tool people that claim anything with a cord is cheating. If that is the case then all those fancy planes, chisels, etc are cheating for them and they should just have a sharp knife and whittle/carve everything to completion. If a tool makes me faster, more accurate, and makes the task more enjoyable then so be it. If I had to do this with a just a handsaw and hammer I wouldn't be doing it because It wouldn't be enjoyable for me. Other people feel differently and that is ok. I joke around with a friend of mine. He despises a cresent wrench and i despise a handsaw. We will use them if we have to but they are not our go too tools. There is always more then one way to skin a cat so to speak.

As far as finishing goes I could read all the books in the world but until the finish hits the board the book means nothing. Trying techniques on scrap works. Problems seem to present themselves on the actual piece.

The will always be mistakes. Not one of my projects is perfect. I think they is something on each project that I would do differently if I were to do it again. If my wife can see it then fix wasn't good enough, otherwise I am just obsessing over it.

It sounds like you are in this because you want to do it not because you have/need to do it so don't stress about it or you will burn yourself out. Your plan sounds solid if it is working for you. Make some sawdust. Wood is one thing that does grow on trees.

[Bob Riefer]

It sounds like you are stressing out too much about this. I am not sure what the hurry is to learn everything.

It sounds like you are in this because you want to do it not because you have/need to do it so don't stress about it or you will burn yourself out. Your plan sounds solid if it is working for you. Make some sawdust. Wood is one thing that does grow on trees.

Sounds like you took my post as being a stress-filled one. My fault, and not my intent at all. Simply looking to find out if I'm approaching this ocean's-worth of learning sensibly.

[Bob Riefer]

That said, another idea is quickly growing some interest...

The home and barn renovation is about to start in about 2-3 weeks. Most important to this thread, is that my shop will get a nice boost in available space (about 5 feet additional space x about 17.5 feet in length).

I have long dreamed of a nicer workbench. I have ready so many conflicting buy vs. build opinions. But I think the deciding vote was my son...

I asked him:
"Boy... you know I would like to fill that new space with a sturdy, flat, useful, beautiful workbench... I could build one, or I could buy one... what do you think?"

And he replied (without hesitation):
"Build it... you'll only really like it if you do it... and, it will be cool to say my dad built that."



I'm without-project for the next couple weeks... I've been wanting to read THE ANARCHIST’S WORKBENCH... maybe build my future workbench?



Not-to-say I don't want to take on the finishing journey too... but maybe my first "subject" can be this bench.




What do you think? Bench as a good skill builder, shop productivity improver, and practice piece for finishing?

[Jim Becker]

Building your bench certainly had skill building potential. But it's also an opportunity to have a bench that has a design that matches your own workflow, preferred woodworking techniques including alignment/hold-downs and size. Any bench you buy will be a compromise in some way, shape or form. Of course, that means you can't just "dive in" without giving the project some careful thought and doing some planning. I will add one specific comment about a feature that is important to me for work surfaces in my shop...adjustable height. Think about it...

[Bill Conerly]

"but I sometimes feel like I'm a AAA pitcher called up to the major leagues compared to some of the talent around here."

And I feel like the kid who just finished first year of Little League.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Lots of reference work in print, and probably as many recommendations as posters here. I liked The Workbench by Lon Schleining, Taunton Press.

[Ron Citerone]

"but I sometimes feel like I'm a AAA pitcher called up to the major leagues compared to some of the talent around here."

And I feel like the kid who just finished first year of Little League.

I am humbled by some of the work on here too. Just because you see something that you may not aspire to do doesn't mean you can't just enjoy it and appreciate it.

Without sounding cocky, I believe I am a pretty good fisherman but there are so many I know who I will never be able to compare to. They have specialized, put in their time on the water and deserve their due. Same with woodworking.

Enjoy the talents of others without diminishing your own growth. Best way to go IMO.

[Derek Cohen]

Starting out in woodworking is similar to moving to a new city: in the beginning one is anxious about finding the way around, and we memorise and stick to one route between home and the work place. As we begin to “see” a progressively bigger picture, understanding how the parts go together, we become more comfortable branching out this way or that. We know enough to understand the potential consequences of a shortcut or chosen joinery.

In short, when starting out, we struggle to see the Big Picture. Starting point >>>> end point .... and little in between. I know what I want to make, but how do I get there?

I wrote about this on another forum recently, and to a member of this forum .... an area which beginners do not consider is wood movement. This is as much an important feature of design and construction as the work itself. One of the concerns I have about all the modern day joinery methods - such as biscuits and dominos (and I own these tools myself) - is that they provide a shortcut to construction for those starting out. This obviates some of the most important teaching areas. One of the benefits of learning traditional joinery is that it is more likely that one also learns to pay attention to wood movement.

I fear that the mechanical joiners of this world encourage the building of furniture that only has to last a few years. By contrast, I expect everything I build (with traditional joinery and attention to grain direction and expansion) to last a century. If anyone wants it, of course

When starting out, take the time to read up on traditional joinery. Watch videos of those using it. Link this with design and construction methods for solid wood (as opposed to panels of MDF and ply) since construction demands are different. Try your hand at traditional joints, such as mortice-and-tenon and dovetailing. Make them with machines and by hand. Learn to fit out frame-and-panel doors with solid wood. Ditto drawers and drawer bottoms.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ron Citerone]

4. Around learning finishing... My plan is to study the Flexner book like I'm in grad school. If it takes working on scrap, in addition to trying techniques on actual projects, I'll do that too. Decent approach?

Thanks!

The best advice given about finishing I ever heard was simply this. Find a few finishes that you like and stick with them, perfect them. I happen to mostly use Waterlox and have developed a method that keeps evolving. To keep trying a new finish on each project is like sitting in a bar all day switching drinks IMO.

[Derek Cohen]

Again, simple can work, but take the time to expand understanding.

Finishes serve different purposes. Oil- versus water-based poly, various oil finishes, shellac and shellac-composites, lacquer .... and then a whole host of application methods.

We start out with something tried-and-true, easy to apply - even stick with them forever if they do a specific task well (a specific wood for a specific environment). But there is much to be gained in understanding a wider range. My present piece (a chest) involves staining and grain-filling, then protecting the outside of a case .... which is different from finishing the inside of drawers.

Regards from Perth

Derek