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Thread: for people who do spring joints at times

  1. #1

    for people who do spring joints at times

    is there a formula for the gap you make? I did .013 on boards that are a final of 26" long. It might be a bit heavy. There is likely a point where there is a too much and be certain considerations type of wood, board width etc but maybe not. Never came up with the old guy but know had I asked there would have been a good answer or answers, there always was.

    I know a few of you here do them any thoughts gap related to length?

    While not what I want to ask consider a table top with 8 boards 6 inches wide. If done all with spring joints then your table top will be sunk in in width in the middle some amount. Easy enough to calculate when you know your gap.


    thanks,



    w

  2. #2
    Warren, I think "just something". That is wayyy ahead of even a small opening at ends!! Especially with modern kiln
    dried wood acclimated in a shop with temperature that is OK with glue instructions. Since more wood is taken off on front
    end than the back end; it's best to do one edge then flip board end over end to make all parallel . If it is stain grade work.
    And be sure to joint one board face "in" (to fence ) and next "out". Then you don't have to worry about the fence
    moving ....like they all do. Just let it sag to stability !

  3. #3
    You definately need to have all your boards jointed ,or straight-lined before doing the spring jointing . Got to have a straight "track". Finished glue up needs to be jointed with standard set up and ripped to have uniform width. Or it
    would not be parallel
    Last edited by Mel Fulks; 12-19-2020 at 1:56 AM.

  4. #4
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    Warren, I do spring joints on larger glue ups. I believe it helps end splitting. Especially in a dry climate. Never measured the gap but it’s pretty slight. Probably close to what you say. I usually straight line and rip to consistent width before putting the spring joint on. Small panels less than say 2’ in length the spring joint is hardly noticeable.
    and I don’t worry if everything comes out parallel as panels get sized after glue up.

  5. #5
    thanks

    yeah boards were jointed and ripped other side first. Mel so you have to do an edge twice from one end then turn it around go the other way? thats new to me but had never asked one of the old guys. I do the face in out thing but have also made sure the jointer fence is square first each time. Those are very light fences on the scm, because its a combo they cut down on the weight knowing its on and off all the time. Want to try the larger jointer but still havent had time to focus on it. I had added baltic birch onto the jointer fence to make it a bit taller and longer and that was an improvement. This smaller thing I just trued it up to straight on the edge sander, had to be edge sanded first and of course both ends sanded first before the middle. Joe I think I went too heavy on my gap for the 26" length but im just testing some stuff out and working things out on it

    Ill test the turn around thing later today. thanks to both.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    thanks

    yeah boards were jointed and ripped other side first. Mel so you have to do an edge twice from one end then turn it around go the other way? thats new to me but had never asked one of the old guys. I do the face in out thing but have also made sure the jointer fence is square first each time. Those are very light fences on the scm, because its a combo they cut down on the weight knowing its on and off all the time. Want to try the larger jointer but still havent had time to focus on it. I had added baltic birch onto the jointer fence to make it a bit taller and longer and that was an improvement. This smaller thing I just trued it up to straight on the edge sander, had to be edge sanded first and of course both ends sanded first before the middle. Joe I think I went too heavy on my gap for the 26" length but im just testing some stuff out and working things out on it

    Ill test the turn around thing later today. thanks to both.

    We spring most everything we can but I cant say Ive ever measured. I would guess on some we are heavier than yours. .013" is pretty tight but as Mel says, anything is better than the alternative (open at the ends and trying to clamp it out).
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  7. #7
    I just meant you don't want to try putting spring joint on boards that don't already have a straight edge. And for stain
    grade stuff you don't want non parallel boards ,as no matter how carefully the grain match the eye will be distracted by
    non parallel . So you start with boards sawn parallel. Joint one edge ,then turn it end over end before jointing other edge.
    Remember on a spring joint more wood is removed from the leading end than the trailing end.

  8. #8
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    I usually just look for light in the middle when I do a glue joint, but .013" would be way too much on an 8-10" wide board
    Last edited by Richard Coers; 12-19-2020 at 1:29 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    is there a formula for the gap you make? I did .013 on boards that are a final of 26" long. It might be a bit heavy. There is likely a point where there is a too much and be certain considerations type of wood, board width etc but maybe not. Never came up with the old guy but know had I asked there would have been a good answer or answers, there always was.

    I know a few of you here do them any thoughts gap related to length?

    While not what I want to ask consider a table top with 8 boards 6 inches wide. If done all with spring joints then your table top will be sunk in in width in the middle some amount. Easy enough to calculate when you know your gap.


    thanks,



    w
    Warren, it very much depends on the wood. How much springiness is there in the board. One rule of thumb is that one can close up the gap by pushing the boards together without a clamp.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  10. #10
    Mel got what you meant and i had jointed and ripped to width so fine and it was good to mention just in case i hadnt jointed and width ripped first, appreciate you mentioned it as you arent seeing how I work but looking out for me. Richard makes sense but would depend on the length an 8 foot table top diff than 26" in this case. .013 is 3 - 4 hairs approx. Derek pushing together by hand hard to see that on a wider board. makes sense that board type width thickness etc all affect it. Ill agree that I did .013 on 26" and that is too much but im just doing a prototype and thinking and working out the thoughts. Mark thanks for mentioning you do it as well.

    All good info, thanks,

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    I also consider the width and thickness time of year rain or sun. Iíve found on 8/4 boards that Iíve milled down even at 6/4 I really donít have enough clamps to squeeze out all the glue in a 8 to 10 inch wide board.
    So I joint as accurate as possible I look for snipe on the ends. If I put a clamp on the ends and the opposite side opens up I know there more work to do.
    Aj

  12. #12
    Honed my knives, checked how they are sitting above the head, lowered outfeed to snipe, raised outfeed to perfect, then past .0005 - .0015 for hollow. Thats good on the pressure and squeeze what kind of gap and how long are the boards?

  13. #13
    Haven't made one in a couple years but my rememberence is using a long plane set to take a thin shaving on say a 60" long edge, make a pass on just the middle 15" or so, then a pass on the middle 30" or so, then a pass on the middle 45" or so, then one fuill length pass. Stop each pass by lifting the end of the plane.

  14. #14
    I don't do spring joints. The glue these days is stronger that the wood so if over done it puts stress in the wood and the board will split in the middle instead of the joint I have seen enough older tables with split pieces in the middle. And since the spring has to be put in by hand there is a possibility of getting the joint out of square. So why put in the extra work so that it might split down the road. All it does is allow a person to use fewer or one clamp. Why not get the mating boards right and use a few more clamps. It is a good reason as any to buy a couple more clamps.
    Tom

  15. #15
    your barking up the wrong tree. Anyone who had to do that cause they didnt have enough clamps deserves what they get. They have created and built in a problem at that point.

    The spring does not have to be put in by hand its achieved by raising the outfeed table on the jointer. Its one thing if boards are in a solid piece of furniture as sides top or bottom that are glued together, another if they are boards on a table top not joined to anything else at the ends as they are. Never once seen the results you said but did once see table top open at the ends and this is why this extra attention is paid.

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