Wear bevel?

[Jim Koepke]

Hone the bevel past the wear, then back off the nice fat burr you worked up as you normally would. Don't wait so long to hone next time. Chisels and plane irons are wasting assets. They are not meant to last three lifetimes. Your goal is to use them up. I'm not suggesting abuse but I'm also not suggesting that using a chisel down to a nub is something to be ashamed of. Quite the opposite.

Have there been any studies on if a wear bevel tends to grow faster as the blade wears?

It seems to follow logically that as the wear bevel starts it increases the angle/resistance of the blade.

This would also provide a very good reason to sharpen more often.

jtk

[Michael J Evans]

I guess I'm missing the boat on either sharpening and or honing at the correct angle.
I feel like I sharpen frequently and try to stay sharp.So it must be sharpening angle? I generally free hand and try to be quick about it and don't worry to much about angles. I really only about getting a burr and getting sharp.

[steven c newman]

yep..there are some on here that think one needs a "Phd" in Sharpening.....

[Derek Cohen]

I am late to this thread, but a few comments ...

The wear bevel is real and can become an issue ... bit rarely is. It is more of a factor with bevel up planes, since the wear bevel can reduce the clearance angle, and too little clearance will cause a place to stop cutting. But, then again, this is rare.

I used to hotly debate this issue with Larry Williams (Old Street Tools and planes), who was anti BU planes and I pro BU planes. We used to have some fine arguments .. uh ... debates, especially on the FWW forum. History is the judge. BU planes have been very popular for decades now, and how many users complain about the wear bevel? The few that do are notable to have abused their plane and blade. That is, used it too long and let it get too dull, then blamed the wear bevel; failed to prepare the back of the blade when the honed the bevel face; or, simply hammered the blade with too-deep cuts.

Surely everyone hones the back of the blade each time they hone the bevel face? Even a light stop on the back to remove the wire will prevent a wear bevel intruding.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Michael J Evans]

Derek
I wouldn't say I generally hone the back. Generally I pull it a few times across the stone to loosen the burr. Like I said a few times.
Maybe part of the issue is I haven't flattened the backs to the umteenth level of polish?. I think on this blade I flattened the back to around 600 grit or so and stopped. Spending hours flattening backs is no fun to me.

[Michael J Evans]

And this is a bevel down plane.

[Jim Koepke]

I guess I'm missing the boat on either sharpening and or honing at the correct angle.
I feel like I sharpen frequently and try to stay sharp.So it must be sharpening angle? I generally free hand and try to be quick about it and don't worry to much about angles. I really only about getting a burr and getting sharp.

Derek
I wouldn't say I generally hone the back. Generally I pull it a few times across the stone to loosen the burr. Like I said a few times.
Maybe part of the issue is I haven't flattened the backs to the umteenth level of polish?. I think on this blade I flattened the back to around 600 grit or so and stopped. Spending hours flattening backs is no fun to me.

And this is a bevel down plane.

Not worrying about the angle has two sides to it. In my case, not worrying about the angle means the angle of a particular chisel or plane blade may not be known. My worry is about maintaining the angle. My intent during sharpening is to avoid a secondary angle. They still creep in at times.

For others working with a secondary bevel may be their preferred choice. Then it can be a little more difficult to maintain a constant angle without a guide. This can lead to an ever increasing working angle at the arris. With a bevel down plane if this angle becomes more than 35º it can cause the blade to 'roll' over the wood.

jtk

[Robert Hazelwood]

I guess I'm missing the boat on either sharpening and or honing at the correct angle.
I feel like I sharpen frequently and try to stay sharp.So it must be sharpening angle? I generally free hand and try to be quick about it and don't worry to much about angles. I really only about getting a burr and getting sharp.

I think what happened is that on a previous sharpening you may have accidentally honed the bevel a bit too steep - let's say you did a few strokes at 38 degrees. Then, on the sharpening that gave you problems you were probably trying to hone at a more normal angle like 33 degrees. In order to raise a burr, you would need to sharpen long enough at 33 degrees to remove the entire 38 degree bevel, and you were struggling to do that on your normal stones. Getting out the 80 grit and grinding the bevel side is what fixed the problem (incorrect geometry on the bevel side).

As I said before, the wear bevel is on the back of an iron, and will not prevent a burr from forming when you sharpen/grind the bevel side. No matter how big it is. If you can't raise a burr then there's some issue with the bevel side geometry. What the wear bevel does is impede full removal of the burr after its formed, a separate issue.

[Michael J Evans]

Thanks Robert