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Thread: What technique would you use to fit a frameless cabinet to an out-of-plumb wall?

  1. #1

    What technique would you use to fit a frameless cabinet to an out-of-plumb wall?

    Hi all,

    I'm building a frameless bathroom vanity that has walls on three sides.

    All three walls are completely tiled all the way to the floor.

    The two side walls are a bit out of square with the back being narrower than the front. I decided to build the cabinet square and now have gaps on both side walls.

    The left-side gap is about 7/16 from top to bottom. The right-side gap is 3/16 at the bottom and 7/16 at the top.

    I am planning on a bank of drawers on both sides with doors in the middle.

    What options/techniques would you use to deal with the side gaps for this installation?

    Here's what I've come up with:

    1. The easiest option is to just leave it as is! Since the walls are tiled it doesn't look too bad, and the only disadvantage here is that the right-side gap varies 1/4 inch from top to bottom. I can see the inconsistent gap on the right side, but my wife probably wouldn't notice unless I told her...

    2. The drawers on the sides will be full overlay. I could cut the drawer faces oversize to cover the gap. On the right-hand side I could cut the drawer faces on a slight angle to account for the out-of-plumb wall.

    3. Install a filler strip on both sides. I have a track saw and could cut the angled filler strip on the right-side without a problem.

    Any thoughts? Options 1 and 2 are my own independent ideas as a beginner - are they dumb?
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  2. #2
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    I would make a cardboard or plywood pattern and then build the cabinet using the pattern.

  3. #3
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    normally I would expect to either....

    1. scribe the area and then make something to fit. Usually that means a face frame, molding, or insert between the wall and the cabinet.

    2. use a molding that is thin enough to follow the contour and somewhat hide the gap. I did this when a cabinet was set against a wall and you can stand next to the cabinet and see behind the cabinet because of a gap. The thin molding was small enough to bridge the gap, but against the side of the cabinet you could not tell that there might be a 1/4" difference from the bottom to the top.

    Then what will you do with the top to keep things from falling down behind the cabinet? Scribe the top? My kitchen counters have something like a small backsplash and then they simply caulked between that and the wall. A problem if the gap is large, but I did not have that problem.

  4. #4
    Shims and scribe.

    No walls are plumb or flat. Frameless cabinets still need filler panels, or shims and scribe to fit in alcoves.

  5. #5
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    Too late for you because you built the cabinet, but what I did in a similar situation was to build the cabinet 2" narrower than the opening, roughly 1" on each side. Then I scribed and fit strips to block the gap, but affixed them to the cabinet about 2" back from the front. This gives the appearance of a free standing vanity (which is popular these days). The side strips prevent having to paint or dust that very narrow space. You could do the same thing for the same reason, I guess.

    I'd either leave it or go with the oversize drawer fronts. You may want to split the difference, in other words, correct only half the variation in the gap to avoid having the drawer fronts look too wonky.
    --I had my patience tested. I'm negative--

  6. #6
    This space is crying out for a cabinet that is substantially narrower, or else no cabinet at all.

  7. #7
    I use recessed scribe strips set back 1/2" or so from the cabinet face on both sides.- the setback depth is arbitrary. You can cut the right sided drawer faces to match the wall angle, no-one will detect the out of square condition. Cabinets built off site would typically not have the drawer fronts scribed but there's no reason for you not to do it. You need to leave a gap between the drawer fronts and tile anyway so the drawers can operate- the greater the reveal the less any inconsistencies show. I typically have the fronts flush to the cabinet sides.

    Are you planning to mount doors on partitions? It is generally easier to assemble the entire cabinet on the bench including hardware prior to installation. The partitions need to be parallel to the sidewalls for the drawer slides to work.

    Building the cabinet intentionally out of square to accommodate site conditions is rarely a good idea, especially when drawers are involved. Scribing is an essential skill for the cabinet installer.

  8. #8
    Thanks for all the replies

    Quote Originally Posted by lowell holmes View Post
    I would make a cardboard or plywood pattern and then build the cabinet using the pattern.
    Sorry for the noobish question, but: if I built a pattern for the out-of-square alcove - and then built the cabinet out-of-square to fit, how would fitting drawers work? Or maybe I am misunderstanding your suggestion to make a pattern first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Pitonyak View Post
    normally I would expect to either....
    Then what will you do with the top to keep things from falling down behind the cabinet?
    The countertop will be quartz and has been measured to fit the space so this shouldn't be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F Franklin View Post
    I'd either leave it or go with the oversize drawer fronts. You may want to split the difference, in other words, correct only half the variation in the gap to avoid having the drawer fronts look too wonky.
    I like this idea of splitting the difference. I am going to strongly consider that option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Dawson View Post
    This space is crying out for a cabinet that is substantially narrower, or else no cabinet at all.
    What do you mean no cabinet at all? Do you mean a pedestal sink instead of a vanity? I think I agree that the cabinet is aesthetically large for the space, but this is the only bathroom in a small 1950s house and so the large cabinet is necessary for basic functionality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    I use recessed scribe strips set back 1/2" or so from the cabinet face on both sides.- the setback depth is arbitrary. You can cut the right sided drawer faces to match the wall angle, no-one will detect the out of square condition. Cabinets built off site would typically not have the drawer fronts scribed but there's no reason for you not to do it. You need to leave a gap between the drawer fronts and tile anyway so the drawers can operate- the greater the reveal the less any inconsistencies show. I typically have the fronts flush to the cabinet sides.

    Are you planning to mount doors on partitions? It is generally easier to assemble the entire cabinet on the bench including hardware prior to installation. The partitions need to be parallel to the sidewalls for the drawer slides to work.

    Building the cabinet intentionally out of square to accommodate site conditions is rarely a good idea, especially when drawers are involved. Scribing is an essential skill for the cabinet installer.
    Great advice. Yes, I am planning to mount the doors on two partitions. I would have preferred to install all the hardware on the bench, but I don't know exactly where I can install the partitions until the quartz countertop and sink is installed.

  9. #9
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    Shims, lots of shims...
    NOW you tell me...

  10. #10
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    What Kevin said.

    John

  11. #11
    Since you will have a bank of drawers on each each side, make and install the drawer boxes flush with the front of the cabinet box. Fit a piece of plywood (or whatever the drawer fronts need to be) to cover each stack of drawers in one piece, so that you have a consistent gap from the wall. Then cut apart the individual drawer fronts.

    Use shims the thickness of your saw cut to re-align the fronts as you attach them to the drawer boxes.

  12. #12
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    And another thing

    The floor of that cabinet will get wet and chemicals will get spilled on it. Install a plastic floor of some kind and caulk it to the sides.

  13. #13
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    If you are planning on drawers on both side, there should be inner dividers for the drawer slide to attach to.They could be attached to the top cleats via dados. You could then make a pattern for each side out of card board and make the drawer faces match the contour of the out of square walls, keeping the inner side square to match the doors as they too will need something to attach to. I would pull the cabinet, but beforehand put a few match marks on it and the wall so your templates will work out correctly. Shop build it, then install the cabinet and the counter top. It was also mentioned about water... make sure to finish the inside where the utilities hook up to avoid water damage.

  14. #14
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    It occurs to me that many folks make this kind of job harder by making the cabinet case too wide so they leave a very difficult job in creating scribed fillers to close up the space. If you leave a generous 3/4" or full inch or so on each side, you'll be able to clamp a wider filler piece plumb with the cabinet (the cabinet needs to be temporarily installed level and plumb as it will be when finished!) and scribe the edge. And the filler pieces will be easier to apply to the edge of the cabinet. Also the edge of the scribed piece should be back-beveled so minor adjustments can be made while doing the final installation.

    One other thing...you MUST be willing to slightly damage the finish on the walls during the cabinet installation. The nature of drywall mud at corners, etc. makes that a requirement. That little bit of scuffing is easy to fix and invisible after paint is applied/reapplied properly.
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 12-20-2020 at 10:20 AM.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #15
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    This is a common issue with furniture style vanity cabinets. The ones on legs, no toe kick. They cannot be scribe stripped as a normal cabinet is because it just doesn't look good. Kevin is right, set the strip back a bit though and it all looks better. It's common to just ignore the gap in this application to, but I personally prefer the recessed scribes.

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